Brexit Deal
- Thread starter GeoffCapes
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rivarama
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The outrage about Trump’s comment on that Brexit deal making it impossible to get a trade deal w the US is quite amusing... were we really expecting the US to rush for a trade deal when they takes years and years to establish???.
Trump got the perfect excuse to not do what he said he would - like he needed one.
Obama was right all along, we will get at the back of the queue.
People who thought otherwise were either naive or blind.
Trump got the perfect excuse to not do what he said he would - like he needed one.
Obama was right all along, we will get at the back of the queue.
People who thought otherwise were either naive or blind.
CatmanV2
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I do find it odd that somehow people regard 'politicians' as somehow different from other 'normal' people in their motivations and levels of nastiness.
FWIW that article appears to be 6 years plus old, so probably not a lot more thought to be provoked?
Not saying I'd want to live on £7 per day, but saying that "If I had to I would, " hardly seems to be rocket science. I did it in my youth. It certainly wasn't a bundle of laughs (and it was rather less then IIRC but memory is elastic, and of course you could buy a pint for half a groat)
No one was actually saying 'You should because you're nasty' or 'I want you to because I dislike you' or even'.....
'I'm not going to because I don't have to' which actually is more accurate of (at a wild guess) pretty much all of us on here now
C
FWIW that article appears to be 6 years plus old, so probably not a lot more thought to be provoked?
Not saying I'd want to live on £7 per day, but saying that "If I had to I would, " hardly seems to be rocket science. I did it in my youth. It certainly wasn't a bundle of laughs (and it was rather less then IIRC but memory is elastic, and of course you could buy a pint for half a groat)
No one was actually saying 'You should because you're nasty' or 'I want you to because I dislike you' or even'.....
'I'm not going to because I don't have to' which actually is more accurate of (at a wild guess) pretty much all of us on here now
C
CatmanV2
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There are indeed many people with **** all. Some through little or no fault of their own.
And yet, 'oddly' it's felt reasonable to villifie the likes of IDS or Jeremy Corbyn for not living to the same standards that they don't have to.
If you've of a mind, this gives a start of an overview why people (basically all people) do this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
C
philw696
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Very interesting indeed Chris.
My education in a 70'S Boys Technical School we were never taught anything like this and my working life has been Automotive.
I'm getting to the stage where I want to learn more and try and be a better person helping others.
Doing the Kidscan Charity event in NZ was a life changer for me in 2017.
My education in a 70'S Boys Technical School we were never taught anything like this and my working life has been Automotive.
I'm getting to the stage where I want to learn more and try and be a better person helping others.
Doing the Kidscan Charity event in NZ was a life changer for me in 2017.
Wanderer
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I did collections at ASDA for homeless people before I got ill actually, so I stopped. Anyway, most people were happy to help but quite a few gave us the 'You're just trying to make me feel guilty' and 'This going to English kids'?
When I lived in Copenhagen I never saw one homeless person, part from the one near the Tivoli Garden entrance, and even he used to jet off to Benidorm in the summer to be homeless there. And I'm not even joking!
The Scandi form of Socialism is something I hope we get, tax wasn't super-high over there, but there was a decent safety net. No massive aircraft carriers tho...
CatmanV2
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My education wasn't like that, but I wasn't taught any of this, nor have I learnt it at work (other than tangentially as it can make one a better leader)
Fundamentally we are pretty much all programmed with the same basic desires: Food, shelter, security etc etc. However how each of us interprets that is different, and how it looks over time is also different.
What I would implore is to remember we are driven by 3m years of evolution, one of which's strongest drivers is to identify that what is 'us' and that which is 'other' Because 'us' is good, and 'other' is a threat. Great if you're competing for resources on the plains of Africa and you're fighting for survival. Not so much if you're part of the civil rights movement wondering why everyone else is against you, or a labour supporter wondering 'everyone' can't see why the Tories are evil.
It makes it really easy for us to apply labels and then confirmation bias (another great google) tell us we're right. Social media then steps in to re-inforce that in ways our evolutionary past have ill prepared us for.
C
Fundamentally we are pretty much all programmed with the same basic desires: Food, shelter, security etc etc. However how each of us interprets that is different, and how it looks over time is also different.
What I would implore is to remember we are driven by 3m years of evolution, one of which's strongest drivers is to identify that what is 'us' and that which is 'other' Because 'us' is good, and 'other' is a threat. Great if you're competing for resources on the plains of Africa and you're fighting for survival. Not so much if you're part of the civil rights movement wondering why everyone else is against you, or a labour supporter wondering 'everyone' can't see why the Tories are evil.
It makes it really easy for us to apply labels and then confirmation bias (another great google) tell us we're right. Social media then steps in to re-inforce that in ways our evolutionary past have ill prepared us for.
C
CatmanV2
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Yes, and it's not even their 'fault' "Are you supporting a tribe that competes with mine for resources?"
C
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... or perhaps I just perceive that this other tribe competes with mine for resources because it's different and that scares me.
daverichardson
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Two sides,
I was out with a local councilor the other day for a few beers and he assures me that in Middlesbrough there is no need for anybody to sleep rough. There are decent rooms available and yet I and mates are accosted (I really mean accosted) every weekend when we go on our night out by beggars with little respect for other people, they are provocative and in your face, they alter from week to week using crutches, wheelchairs, carry a dog etc as props. They camp by cash machines in the middle of town.
Consequently I have very little sympathy, I had to make my way in life and so do they. Help is available should they need it.
Don't wish to offend anyone, just my experience and view
I was out with a local councilor the other day for a few beers and he assures me that in Middlesbrough there is no need for anybody to sleep rough. There are decent rooms available and yet I and mates are accosted (I really mean accosted) every weekend when we go on our night out by beggars with little respect for other people, they are provocative and in your face, they alter from week to week using crutches, wheelchairs, carry a dog etc as props. They camp by cash machines in the middle of town.
Consequently I have very little sympathy, I had to make my way in life and so do they. Help is available should they need it.
Don't wish to offend anyone, just my experience and view
CatmanV2
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CatmanV2
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Almost certainly true. Some people don't want to live in rooms and be 'controlled' by someone else. Not their tribe....
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Wanderer
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But like I say, some most people lack the skills. They just aren't educated, don't have the intellect or brains. Ok some are using this crisis as an excuse to gyp people but the vast majority, in my experience most people aren't spongers, want to work, have pride, obvs some are just crooks.
So the question remains, should we help people who can't help themselves?
I'll leave that open.
CatmanV2
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Of course we should except...
What about those that don't want to be helped.
Or don't want to be helped in that way
Or
Or
The deserving poor springs to mind. Although there seems to be an increasing attitude to what might be referred to as the deserving rich....
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conaero
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I better put myself down for the Chair of the Commons...I have experience of attempting to control you lotSports Maserati ????
Wanderer
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But we can't reject any help for anyone really, if we subscribe to altruism.
Because the sponging tw@t who deals in drugs and is a genuine waste of space and is beyond help, may have a wife with no idea, kids, that will suffer innocently. Do we fuk them off too?
My bro is a social worker back home in Bolton, and he told me he had this kid, abused sexually by this father, and was separated quite rightly, but the kid was devoted, heartbroken, he loved his dad. And my bro said this kid did a drawing for my bro, bro said it was great, really good, and the kid said 'Is it, is it really!' with excitement. His dad was a cÙnt, abused him, never even showed him any affection, or appreciated anything the kid did, but the kid still wanted his dad. Broke my heart that story.
Taught me there's no 100%'s no absolute rights and wrongs, and like now, you're Brexit 100% or Remain 100%, Corbyn 100% or Johnson 100%.
Progress is through compromise, compassion and not division.
Zep
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I better put myself down for the Chair of the Commons...I have experience of attempting to control you lot
A government of National (dis)unity?