Brexit Deal

[D Walker]

Today, I drove my Maserati to the garage I use locally. As I was going under the bridge which goes to the Middlesbrough Football Staduim, I saw a food store trolley in the void under the bridge, then I spied what looked like a lean too, which someone was dismantling to put into said trolley.
Don’t know if it’s just me but I actually felt a bit guilty.....

 

[CatmanV2]

But we can't reject any help for anyone really, if we subscribe to altruism.

Progress is through compromise, compassion and not division.

Of course. I wasn't suggesting we should (reject help for anyone) but clearly helping everyone is not possible or indeed, potentially desirable, although it will depend on what form that help takes.

Take the kid in your example. What help does he need? Is it the same as what he wants? And here's the big one (per Zep's comment) Who decides....

C

 

[CatmanV2]

A government of National (dis)unity?

Government?

C

 

[CatmanV2]

Today, I drove my Maserati to the garage I use locally. As I was going under the bridge which goes to the Middlesbrough Football Staduim, I saw a food store trolley in the void under the bridge, then I spied what looked like a lean too, which someone was dismantling to put into said trolley.
Don’t know if it’s just me but I actually felt a bit guilty.....

Well two questions, really:
Why should you feel guilty?
and
Why shouldn't you feel guilty?
As the esteemed Wanderer says 'there's no 100%'s no absolute rights and wrongs'

Unfortunately, our evolutionary drivers have some catching up to do.

C

 

[daverichardson]

Of course we need to help. that does not mean we gift everything

 

[Wanderer]

Well two questions, really:
Why should you feel guilty?
and
Why shouldn't you feel guilty?
As the esteemed Wanderer says 'there's no 100%'s no absolute rights and wrongs'

Unfortunately, our evolutionary drivers have some catching up to do.

C

Well I do feel some guilt, well not guilt, more of a feeling I could do more. Of course I don't.

I well remember walking up Park Row in Leeds past the phalanx of beggars (with dogs) after I'd just paid 17k on the train to the HMRC and the guy on the street was asking for more. Felt like same person, different reason.

So yes, I think mostly the homeless and the beggars should be helped and we all should give; just at that moment my feeling was 'fuk 'em' again no 100%'s , no black or white, we are complex human beings, not yes/no digital, not even yes/no/maybe/bit of each analogue. Quantum, that's the human condition.

Neither one nor the other but both at the same time....

 

[Phil the Brit]

How about an idea for the layabouts on the street, how about you get a job. You know, you get up early like I have done all my working life, make the effort to go somewhere that pays you to earn your way in life. Heck, do like I did for many years, get TWO jobs.
Radical, I know!
For full disclosure, I am not talking about disabled people, I mean the dossers and drug addicts and bums that must adorn every town in the country.

 

[Mavster]

 

[Wattie]

What extraordinary comments.

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

There’s no proof at all that what they’ve done before works.....hence why they’re having to do it all again!

 

[midlifecrisis]

It makes it really easy for us to apply labels and then confirmation bias (another great google) tell us we're right. Social media then steps in to re-inforce that in ways our evolutionary past have ill prepared us for.

C

Confirmation Bias.... AKA Man Maths when buying a Maserati...

I better put myself down for the Chair of the Commons...I have experience of attempting to control you lot

Attempting.... but not exactly achieving....

 

[philw696]

I'm Back

 

[CatmanV2]

I shouldn't laugh, really

C

 

[Corranga]

How about an idea for the layabouts on the street, how about you get a job. You know, you get up early like I have done all my working life, make the effort to go somewhere that pays you to earn your way in life. Heck, do like I did for many years, get TWO jobs.
Radical, I know!
For full disclosure, I am not talking about disabled people, I mean the dossers and drug addicts and bums that must adorn every town in the country.

Yes, simple isn't it.

A homeless person in the UK dies, on average aged 44.
Obviously they are doing it by choice, all they have to do is get a job to add on average 36 more years to their life. Simple.

And of course, homeless people are all layabouts, drug addicts, bums aren't they.
None of them are homeless because of the lack of affordable housing, or being evicted by a private landlord who decides to sell on a property with little to no notice, being ousted by parents who don't agree with their sexuality, or trying to escape an abusing partner.
Substance misuse is an issue that can obviously be resolved by just stopping right? It's absolutely nothing to do with the government provided facilities being woefully inadequate - and by that, I mean the attitudes towards mental health leading to the substance misuse, the difficulties in getting employment once branded as a junkie.

I suggest you stop calling them layabouts, dossers, bums, and start calling them people. Perhaps then you'd have some empathy. It's what separates us humans from the animals after all.

 

[Phil the Brit]

That's another view from someone who is poles apart from my perspective obviously.
How about you layabouts, dossers and bums take some responsibility for your lives and stop being a drain on society.
I was recently accosted by one when I refused to give him a pound. Physically accosted, put his hands on me. I would have called the police but what are they going to do, they don't want to touch him either.
And how about you bum substance abusers stop leaving your dirty needles on the grass in the Colchester castle grounds where children and dogs play.
No, Corranga, no empathy from me I'm afraid.

 

[Wanderer]

That's another view from someone who is poles apart from my perspective obviously.
How about you layabouts, dossers and bums take some responsibility for your lives and stop being a drain on society.
I was recently accosted by one when I refused to give him a pound. Physically accosted, put his hands on me. I would have called the police but what are they going to do, they don't want to touch him either.
And how about you bum substance abusers stop leaving you dirty needles on the grass in the Colchester castle grounds where children and dogs play.
No, Corranga, no empathy from me I'm afraid.

Are we captains of our own fates' or are we the products of our upbringings?

I know plenty of dole dossers, layabouts etc, I am from Bolton, and that's their life choice and it's pity they seem to think that's a honest way to live but believe me they are few. The vast majority of those living at the ****-end of existence have no choice, they don't have the intelligence, or desire to improve like most do. And it's not their fault, it's the way they're wired, we can't all be brain surgeons and rocket scientists.

You have to have empathy for people like this or you end up agreeing with the narrow-minded and before you know it, Nigel Farage...

 

[daverichardson]

I was in a market town Wetherspoons on Friday gone for our usual knees up.
Briefly I was left alone at the table and a shabbily dressed young man came right up to me face to face asking no, demanding money. He was holding a mobile 'phone I refused him and he took umbrage. Fisticuffs were imminent when staff came quickly to my assistance and he was ejected.
I feel he targeted me and violence was likely. So now not content with street harassment they come into private lives with an aggressive attitude.This is a step up in confrontation that I do not like.
I had to sort my life out so do they.
No sympathy I am afraid from me

 

[GeoffCapes]

Yes, simple isn't it.

A homeless person in the UK dies, on average aged 44.
Obviously they are doing it by choice, all they have to do is get a job to add on average 36 more years to their life. Simple.

And of course, homeless people are all layabouts, drug addicts, bums aren't they.
None of them are homeless because of the lack of affordable housing, or being evicted by a private landlord who decides to sell on a property with little to no notice, being ousted by parents who don't agree with their sexuality, or trying to escape an abusing partner.
Substance misuse is an issue that can obviously be resolved by just stopping right? It's absolutely nothing to do with the government provided facilities being woefully inadequate - and by that, I mean the attitudes towards mental health leading to the substance misuse, the difficulties in getting employment once branded as a junkie.

I suggest you stop calling them layabouts, dossers, bums, and start calling them people. Perhaps then you'd have some empathy. It's what separates us humans from the animals after all.

Having been almost homeless myself, I can empathise to a degree.
The reason I wasn't homeless is because I pulled my finger out and begged, borrowed and stole to make sure I wasn't.
From there I made sure that I went out and earned a living.

The earning a living bit is the easy bit. Ensuring you have an address is the hard bit. Especially when you have nothing.

There are those who when the sht hits the face will just stand there and let the sht hit and take them down.
There are those who will move out of it's way.

It all depends on your mindset.

I would suggest those who are on the street, 90% don't have the mindset or take the easy way out by getting smashed out their boxes on drink and/or drugs.
There are of course the 10% who are homeless through no fault of their own, and are willing to do anything to resolve that situation.

 

[Wanderer]

When I was working at Piccadilly Station me and mi' colleague used to walk the concourse most lunchtimes and get regularly accosted by the lad who'd lost a tenner and just need it to get home to Sheffield, could we 'lend' it him. We see him try this everyday without fail. His act though was ruined by him clutching a tin of Stella.

See, a chancer, a scumbag. Not someone without will, wit or any sort of intelligence - those are the people who end up dead on the streets covered in cardboard and I have seen two dead homeless people both in Dublin early winters morning.

If anything thinks that's acceptable is well, I dunno...

 

[philw696]

 

[Wattie]

Hardly surprising, their policy changes with the wind.

Re the election.
If the Tories and Brexit party form an alliance (unlikely) I think we get a possible majority Parliament.
If not, the leave vote is split and a hung parliament is probably inevitable, given that I cannot see the Lib Dem’s (standing as a revoke party) picking up enough votes. There are many remain voters who feel that the leave vote be respected and will not vote that way.

Just me or does anyone else find Joe Swinson to be very annoying? I’d put her in the Sturgeon camp in terms of irritation.

Deal done?