Change those F1 relays!

philgarner

philgarner

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226
Another one of the early jobs on my car done tonight, glad I did too. This relay looks like it has been drawing some serious current. Has an '05 date on it so probably never changed.
 

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CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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Relays don't draw (much) current. The load that is being switched will draw current. That's sort of the point of them.

Did you replace it with a higher rated version?

C
 
midlifecrisis

midlifecrisis

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16,285
Like Chris says, relays are built to switch large currents on and off repeatedly over many millions of times. I've always looked at the forum's scepticism of the relays as a lack of electronic knowledge amongst the contributors and have never really taken much heed if the debate.
Relays do wear out, they are mechanical after all.
A small control current flows around the coil produces a magnetic field, which pulls the contacts across switching on or off a circuit.
In this case, a fuel pump to keep the pressure up in the fuel rail.
Over time as the relays performs this many times. The contacts can degrade through corrosion or the pump drawing excessive current which causes localised pitting on the surface of the contacts. Both of these issues lead to higher resistance in the switched circuit which can lead ultimately failure of the fuel delivery.
My recommendation is, yes change them as many times as you feel but it's not worth it to do it more than once every five,six or even seven years. They are designed to do millions of operations and more regular changing is not going to increase performance.
 
M

Mr.Cambio

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7,096
midlifecrisis said:
My recommendation is, yes change them as many times as you feel but it's not worth it to do it more than once every five,six or even seven years. They are designed to do millions of operations and more regular changing is not going to increase performance.
Click to expand...

Mine got burnt on the 7th year, leading to the f1 pump failure. I was scared and since then i replace it every year. It's 20 euros to prevent 2000.
 
midlifecrisis

midlifecrisis

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16,285
Mr.Cambio said:
Mine got burnt on the 7th year, leading to the f1 pump failure. I was scared and since then i replace it every year. It's 20 euros to prevent 2000.
Click to expand...

A reasonable point but all I'm saying is that ones over-cautiousness leads to another's paranoia but looking at some relay's specification most are around the 1,000,000 mechanical cycles mark. So five years would be a good time to change them as a minimum in my opinion.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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48,948
midlifecrisis said:
A reasonable point but all I'm saying is that ones over-cautiousness leads to another's paranoia but looking at some relay's specification most are around the 1,000,000 mechanical cycles mark. So five years would be a good time to change them as a minimum in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Spot on. The only (possible) issue here is that if it's marginally underspecced and / or the load is being particularly inductive, the arcing can wear them a bit faster. Either it fails off, where you're stuck, or on, where you *might* lose your F1 pump.

Solid state would be nice, but....


C
 
M

Mr.Cambio

Member
Messages
7,096
midlifecrisis said:
A reasonable point but all I'm saying is that ones over-cautiousness leads to another's paranoia but looking at some relay's specification most are around the 1,000,000 mechanical cycles mark. So five years would be a good time to change them as a minimum in my opinion.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that electronics fail sometime. They're not built to last a lifetime. I would never put an alternative instead of the oem relays, just have in mind to replace it once every year. I knwo a year is too soon, but 2000 are 2000. To be honest, after reading your post, i calmed down, so i start replacing it twice a year.....oh no...once in two years :)
 
allandwf

allandwf

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11,018
Make sure the terminals and sockets are clean, as high resistance there will cause heat if heavy loads.
 
conaero

conaero

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34,679
I think its time I did mine, does anyone know where the link is the Tyco one or alternative?

I am not paying Maserati £40 for a £5 relay, especially as it does not even have a Trident stamped on it!
 
Fran

Fran

Junior Member
Messages
94
just looking at some info I have saved, see below. it looks like is part V23134-B57-X152 or same part, BMW code 6136-1393403

Is this the right one? I would like to buy one at this price but a NEW one. Any chance the Forum can organise a group buy? I am sure the majority of member will contribute £10 to get a new spare one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-ABS-O...838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1a02902d06
-------------------------
The relay I removed is the Tyco V23134-B57-X203. This relay is not listed on the Tyco website, and I suspect it is a special part number for Maserati/Ferrari. It is about £50 from Eurospares. Further research suggested that the V23134-B57-X152 relay is equivalent. So I bought one off Ebay (£8.46 delivered). This is a used relay taken from a BMW 525 and drives the ABS system.

---------------------------
The Pump Relay. Manufactured by Tyco/Siemens and the early V23134-B57-X203 was superceded by the upgradad V23134-B57-X152, Maserati and Ferrari Part No 155437, 5 pin Relay. I checked with Tyco, and these relays are Manufacturer specific, and cannot be bought through Tyco/Siemens Distributors. However, this relay is also supplied to BMW as an ABS relay, BMW Part No 6136-1393403, and can be purchased new for just over £18, a great saving on the £70+ Maserati charge for one. Second hand ones are also available on Ebay for between £5 and £8. £18 is an excellent price and I would recommend keeping one as a spare in the glove box just incase the relay fails in the open position, and the pump keeps on running, just as mine did.

FM
 
drewf

drewf

Member
Messages
7,159
Which could be fixed by using SSR...

However, the cost doesn't stack up - notwithstanding the ludicrous prices Maserati charge for an ordinary relay, if we assume the standard part costs a fiver, (which is a realistic price, easily achievable), you could replace them every year for 10 years before getting to the price of a replacement SSR. Since the standard relays certainly last three years or so without any problem, that means it's about 30 years+ before you break-even. Simply not worth it.
 
philgarner

philgarner

Member
Messages
226
Alfa selespeed part is the same. I got mine from Alfaworkshop.co.uk, think I paid £24 for two. There must be a thread about it on here somewhere.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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48,948
Fran said:
Second hand ones are also available on Ebay for between £5 and £8. £18 is an excellent price and I would recommend keeping one as a spare in the glove box just incase the relay fails in the open position, and the pump keeps on running, just as mine did.

FM
Click to expand...

If the relay fails open, the pump won't run. I suspect you mean closed.

C
 
jluis

jluis

Member
Messages
1,703
drewf said:
Which could be fixed by using SSR...

However, the cost doesn't stack up - notwithstanding the ludicrous prices Maserati charge for an ordinary relay, if we assume the standard part costs a fiver, (which is a realistic price, easily achievable), you could replace them every year for 10 years before getting to the price of a replacement SSR. Since the standard relays certainly last three years or so without any problem, that means it's about 30 years+ before you break-even. Simply not worth it.
Click to expand...

SSR should have a lower manufacturing cost than an electromechanical device.
What is their current rating?
I could look with electronic suppliers for an affordable SSR version
 
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