Brexit Deal

zagatoes30

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20,994
The Brother In Law retired from the RAF, on a nice pension, where he was on the radar procurement team, when he left he became a project manager for a radar manufacturer. 2 weeks in he rings me up to discuss project management and his first statement was that his new company expected him to run projects on budget and on time unless he was working with the RAF when he could the longer he took the better as they always pay for over-runs.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,130
East Coast main line railways were taken out of private ownership due to failure of the company and ran at a profit successfully by the government for many years. This is the only example I know of but my point was surely one operator is enough for our small land mass. Agreed maybe not the government

The East Coast franchise when it was a running as a private business put more money into the public purse than when it was state run, it just didn’t make any money for the shareholders.


Even when it was BR the railways weren’t one unified entity. For example Great Western region used different track and rolling stock designs to Southern.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Define successful for me? Genuinely curious.

C
Nobody died!

No shortcuts were made (that I saw). Example springs to mind we had 2 fix response on Reactor systems (direct from DEC, was all VMS on reactor), I could well imagine that going by the wayside when Power plc see how much it cost....
 

Geo

Member
Messages
616
Following on from my earlier comments.

What really ****** me off was; If I managed to save money on my budget, my boss would tell me to spend the savings to ensure that the departments overall budget would be cut the following year. The guy that was in my post before me, used to buy the most ridiculous things just to burn excess money. At least when told, I expanded our workshop facilities to make things marginally easier to run our service. But being realistic, a lot of the stuff we purchased was not really required.

Another thing that got my goat was the number of junkets a close knit bunch of middle and upper management went on. These trips often took them to far flung destinations and would frequently be extended by adding one or two weeks holidays, having had the air travel paid by the government.

Why stop now; NHS Tayside has gone through more extremely highly paid useless executives than I care to remember over the years, and when they are found lacking, they got huge golden handshakes instead of getting kicked out. They should have been made to pay back some of the money they were paid in the first place.

Regarding the lack of nurses, there is something wrong in the system when NHS trained nurses leave, sign up on a nursing agency then get re-employed in the same department and get paid a higher rate. Bearing in mind the nursing agency is also getting paid for supplying them. I’m in no way having a go at the nurses, they are brilliant, but boy is there something wrong with the system that allows agencies to profit the way they do.

If the NHS was a private business, it would have collapsed years ago.

Rant over!
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Following on from my earlier comments.

What really ** me off was; If I managed to save money on my budget, my boss would tell me to spend the savings to ensure that the departments overall budget would be cut the following year. The guy that was in my post before me, used to buy the most ridiculous things just to burn excess money. At least when told, I expanded our workshop facilities to make things marginally easier to run our service. But being realistic, a lot of the stuff we purchased was not really required.

Another thing that got my goat was the number of junkets a close knit bunch of middle and upper management went on. These trips often took them to far flung destinations and would frequently be extended by adding one or two weeks holidays, having had the air travel paid by the government.

Why stop now; NHS Tayside has gone through more extremely highly paid useless executives than I care to remember over the years, and when they are found lacking, they got huge golden handshakes instead of getting kicked out. They should have been made to pay back some of the money they were paid in the first place.

Regarding the lack of nurses, there is something wrong in the system when NHS trained nurses leave, sign up on a nursing agency then get re-employed in the same department and get paid a higher rate. Bearing in mind the nursing agency is also getting paid for supplying them. I’m in no way having a go at the nurses, they are brilliant, but boy is there something wrong with the system that allows agencies to profit the way they do.

If the NHS was a private business, it would have collapsed years ago.

Rant over!
It's not a business though at it's core, I can never (and should never) make a profit. I get you over wastage though but many would claim that's a symptom of rampant monetarisation.
 

Geo

Member
Messages
616
It's not a business though at it's core, I can never (and should never) make a profit. I get you over wastage though but many would claim that's a symptom of rampant monetarisation.

Not for one minute do I think it should be making a profit, but a lot of money is being wasted that could bolster other departments.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,876
The East Coast franchise when it was a running as a private business put more money into the public purse than when it was state run, it just didn’t make any money for the shareholders.

So does that meet the criteria of a successful business?

C
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,876
Nobody died!

No shortcuts were made (that I saw). Example springs to mind we had 2 fix response on Reactor systems (direct from DEC, was all VMS on reactor), I could well imagine that going by the wayside when Power plc see how much it cost....

That would certainly be a very specific definition of success. Can it be applied across many other industries, do we think?

C
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,130
It's not a business though at it's core, I can never (and should never) make a profit. I get you over wastage though but many would claim that's a symptom of rampant monetarisation.

There is the argument that without the incentive to make a profit money will always be wasted. Which was the idea of the Trusts, dont think that’s working any better though.

Did you know it’s cheaper for the NHS to pay BUPA to remove your appendix than it is to do it themselves.

I knew about Bevan and Gaitskill as I was reading an article about the NHS that said only 5 years after it’s inception, the cost of running it had become unaffordable hence the need to start charging fees for glasses etc.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
My friends daughter (he's a Minister (of Religion)!) has just been evicted from hospital as there are no beds. Putting up her up in a hotel but how have things come to this?
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,876
My friends daughter (he's a Minister (of Religion)!) has just been evicted from hospital as there are no beds. Putting up her up in a hotel but how have things come to this?

Pick one
  1. We don't pay enough tax
  2. That tax is not spent sufficiently efficiently.

C
 
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2b1ask1

Special case
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20,288
Seems Labour today are doing a Treason May at the last election and throwing it all away... In some ways good as we should get Brexit done at last but sadly it is likely to end up being Treason's re-hashed appalling deal!
 

Silvercat

Member
Messages
1,166
Lets face it if this election was a horse race then you would be nuts to go out and gamble your hard earned money on any of these horses winning because the field is so weak. I dont think there has ever been a time when cross party leadership had been so weak....not a proper leader amongst any of them. Putting it another way if any if this lot worked in any big corporation then I think they would have all been sacked by now for different reasons.
None of them are up to the job in hand and the majority of them are just simply delusional.
 
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Messages
6,001
Pick one
  1. We don't pay enough tax
  2. That tax is not spent sufficiently efficiently.
C
Pick both!

I will have a stab at defining success for a business/industry
No deaths, accidents or injury
Look after employees and their families
Generate money to reinvest in the company in order to keep it competitive.
Generate more money to invest 'elsewhere'
Generate money to be altruistic
Pay fair taxes

Broad brush I know and other things missed out but I think it is a decent start
 
Messages
6,001
For me the biggest time bomb is Social Care.
We are all going to get old / infirm and I have thought about this for a while during my trials and tribulations. I can only see one possible answer
Pay More Tax
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,876
Pick both!

I will have a stab at defining success for a business/industry
No deaths, accidents or injury
Look after employees and their families
Generate money to reinvest in the company in order to keep it competitive.
Generate more money to invest 'elsewhere'
Generate money to be altruistic
Pay fair taxes

Broad brush I know and other things missed out but I think it is a decent start

OK, I'll play (somewhat devil's advocate, but meant with serious intent) I agree it's a great start
  1. Yeah, I can get that. So coal is a total failure.
  2. Define 'Look after' What's an acceptable level of car? Mrs C gets something like 3/4 of a mil if I cop it while employed by my current employers as well as full medical care? Is that what we should aim for?
  3. What's an acceptable level of enough to re-invest
  4. What's an acceptable level to invest somewhere else
  5. What's an acceptable level of money to invest in altruism
5a) What's altruistic
6 What's fair? Compliance with the rules or something else?
7 What about profit for shareholders?
C
 
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allandwf

Member
Messages
10,996
Can I just add one point on NHS healthcare, as speaking from experience. I/we had private health care, however our local NHS Hospital was a leader in the field of what we required, and so we decided to utilize them. The level of care was excellent, I cannot and would not fault them. I would prefer to have the choice.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,876
Can I just add one point on NHS healthcare, as speaking from experience. I/we had private health care, however our local NHS Hospital was a leader in the field of what we required, and so we decided to utilize them. The level of care was excellent, I cannot and would not fault them. I would prefer to have the choice.

I'm good with choice. When Mrs C was in need last year the local hospital was not great. Bart's OTOH were cracking.

Our local BUPA is also superb.

C