Brexit Deal

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,991
I couldn't vote for either of them, I don't trust Boris he lies but even worse he knows he is. Similarly I can't trust Corbyn, I think he is true to his views they're just not views that I can support but more worrying is the puppet masters behind him.

So all I can do is vote for some one else, which I have, they won't get in but at least I am happy as to why.
 

Phil the Brit

Member
Messages
1,499
Did anyone watch question time last night.
Could that Angela Rayner shut her gob for five minutes for heavens sake. Was there anyone on the panel who she didn't interupt?
She drove me nuts with her incessant shouting and finger pointing. Trouble is, they reckon she will succeed Corbyn when he loses after the general election.
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,179
I really did try to watch it just got bored and irritated after 5 mins and had to turn over. Watched Guy Martin then Mr Robot instead.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,841
For a forum that has a pretty well documented dislike for “snowflakes”, I would have thought Boris would be right up most people’s street. He says what he believes, has a sense of humour that will occasionally cause offence, and sometimes uses colourful language to get his point across. So he should be right at home on this forum, particularly with those that enjoy posting or viewing the odd picture of a well endowed and shapely young woman despite the sexist connotations in wider society of such things.

I have seen no absence of compassion, but neither does he pretend to have compassion for everything (eg Corbyn and Swinson).

Does he occasionally get flustered by a question and give a slightly cringeworthy unrehearsed answer, yes - but better that than the soundbite politics of the alternative leaders.

Does he tell lies sometimes, perhaps, but that hardly puts him in an elite group amongst politicians, as we know, and let he amongst us without guilt cast the first stone.

And some of his media and opponent alleged lies are arguably not lies, just his version of the truth, eg there will be no Customs checks in the Irish Sea. As I understand it, there will definitely not be any EU forced checks on goods coming to the UK across the Irish Sea. And going the other way, the withdrawal agreement says there MAY be checks in certain circumstances. However, this is is not absolute and is to be negotiated as part of the future trading relationship. Clearly, he does not want this and will negotiate hard to avoid it. So does that make it a lie for him to say, in his view, there will be none?

I wouldn’t describe myself as a Boris fan boy, but in 100 days he achieved the “impossible” according to his detractors, the media and the EU - he got the withdrawal agreement reopened, the backstop removed, and achieved other positive improvements in the Brexit deal. All the opposition did in this period was tell him he would fail and then try to undo what he achieved. On this basis, I’d like to see him get the chance to govern for a full Parliament to see what other “impossible” improvements in quality of life in the UK for all he might deliver without bankrupting the nation. Will everybody love him? No. Will he upset people sometimes with his shoot from the hip approach and colourful sense of humour? Yes. Is he human like the rest of us and doesn’t pretend otherwise? In my view, yes and shouldn’t be condemned for that.


you sir are a star, very well put and in complete agreement :thumb3:
 
Messages
6,001
Nationalisation?
Hmm let me see, we are a small island with more or less continuous land mass and have 20 odd passenger carrying rail companies
Does not seem efficient.
A national grid for electricity
A national grid for gas
There must be a hundred active companies here
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Nationalisation?
Hmm let me see, we are a small island with more or less continuous land mass and have 20 odd passenger carrying rail companies
Does not seem efficient.
A national grid for electricity
A national grid for gas
There must be a hundred active companies here

The 'National Grid' as you put it is made up of DNO's or Distribution Network Operators. Of which there are 14 (from memory).

A similar thing for the gas network.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
Did anyone see what Boris did this afty with that reporters phone and the pic of the boy with pneumonia at LGI on it for him to look at? Refused to looked it and nicked his phone!

If Corbyn did that you'd want him hung drawn and quartered…..

Far be it from me to criticise anyone for worrying about their child or children, but it does strike me as a little over dramatic that someone would take their child to A&E which he has a bad cold (or the flu) and tonsillitis.

These are exactly the reasons that hospitals are over stretched. People are using A&E for things which are not accidents or emergencies (it's in the name).

Now Joseph has had a bad cold, and a very high temperature, it was out of doctor hours so we rang 111.
They had a doctor on the phone within the hour, and directed us to an appointment at the hospital an hour later.
No need for sitting around in A&E and we were seen promptly and antibiotics were prescribed.

Common sense says do this before subjecting your child to 13 hours in A&E.
The reason he was in A&E for that long? He wasn't an Accident or Emergency.
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Far be it from me to criticise anyone for worrying about their child or children, but it does strike me as a little over dramatic that someone would take their child to A&E which he has a bad cold (or the flu) and tonsillitis.

These are exactly the reasons that hospitals are over stretched. People are using A&E for things which are not accidents or emergencies (it's in the name).

Now Joseph has had a bad cold, and a very high temperature, it was out of doctor hours so we rang 111.
They had a doctor on the phone within the hour, and directed us to an appointment at the hospital an hour later.
No need for sitting around in A&E and we were seen promptly and antibiotics were prescribed.

Common sense says do this before subjecting your child to 13 hours in A&E.
The reason he was in A&E for that long? He wasn't an Accident or Emergency.

Completely agree with this. Most GPs now no longer work full time - they can comfortably afford not to under their current contractual and payment terms. So more patients end up going to A&E either because their GP is unavailable or because their GP encourages them to, or both. I know this because my brother in law is a 30 year A&E surgeon who spends too much of his time seeing patients with simple viruses or bacterial infections that should never have been treated anywhere near a hospital.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Deliberately or otherwise you've mis-interpreted my question (which I phrased badly.

Has any government had a great record of running a nationalised business successfully (probably best to stick to UK here) and clearly we need agreements on 'success'

C

Nuclear industry?

I think the core human err, things should be nationalised, education, health, water, heat, house but not 70's style shop-steward in shop floor section every section Carry On At Your Convenience type sidduation.

I've been saying this for years and it's getting nearer, we will have some sort of communism to look forward to, when automation takes over, and everyone has enough to satisfy their needs. There'll always be greedy gets who want more, but for the vast majority it's enough to feed the family, keep it warm, find something worthwhile to stimulate the synapses, see your kids thrive, die before they do.

Or, live on the streets, be ill on hospital floors, freeze to death in a shop door, feed your kids with ketchup sachet's stolen for cafes, because that's what's happening right now
 

zagatoes30

Member
Messages
20,991
Completely agree with this. Most GPs now no longer work full time - they can comfortably afford not to under their current contractual and payment terms. So more patients end up going to A&E either because their GP is unavailable or because their GP encourages them to, or both. I know this because my brother in law is a 30 year A&E surgeon who spends too much of his time seeing patients with simple viruses or bacterial infections that should never have been treated anywhere near a hospital.

Don't start me on GPs, before the new contracts our old GP in Silverstone did OOH and emergency services and he drove round in a Toyota Avensis. He now drives round in a Land Cruiser and has both a 911 Turbo and R8 Convertible never does evenings, weekends and even closes on Fri & Wed afternoons.

Mind you still better than what you get in Ireland €45 min to see a GP
 
Messages
6,001
Did any government have a great record of successful business that was Nationalised. Clearly we'd need to agree on definitions of successful?

C
East Coast main line railways were taken out of private ownership due to failure of the company and ran at a profit successfully by the government for many years. This is the only example I know of but my point was surely one operator is enough for our small land mass. Agreed maybe not the government
 

Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,668
Nuclear industry?

I think the core human err, things should be nationalised, education, health, water, heat, house but not 70's style shop-steward in shop floor section every section Carry On At Your Convenience type sidduation.
Why? Where is the evidence that they will be run better and will actually be cheaper in real terms ( ie when central subsidy, formal or informal is added in). In fact I could point you to a stack of evidence of the reverse, particularly in the NHS, which I have worked for as a contractor for over 20 years. The waste is truly shocking, and the reluctance of individuals to do things to improve service delivery or cost “because I am not personally incentivised to do this, so why should I put myself out and take the risk something going wrong and getting blamed”. You would not believe how many times I heard this over the years at so many different levels in clinical and management functions. Indeed, I regularly saw workers do things to ensure that great new initiatives failed just so that their comfortable status quo could continue. So the NHS costs the taxpayer so much more than it needs to because it is run without any genuine commercial stakeholders incentivised to do things better and more cost effectively.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a fan of the NHS in many ways, and I would not be in favour of privatising it, but it does need commercial influence and partnerships if it is to deliver the best and most cost effective health service for all to the benefit of all taxpayers. Nationalisation is simply not the panacea for better public service that it is often suggested to be
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
Why? Where is the evidence that they will be run better and will actually be cheaper in real terms ( ie when central subsidy, formal or informal is added in). In fact I could point you to a stack of evidence of the reverse, particularly in the NHS, which I have worked for as a contractor for over 20 years. The waste is truly shocking, and the reluctance of individuals to do things to improve service delivery or cost “because I am not personally incentivised to do this, so why should I put myself out and take the risk something going wrong and getting blamed”. You would not believe how many times I heard this over the years at so many different levels in clinical and management functions. Indeed, I regularly saw workers do things to ensure that great new initiatives failed just so that their comfortable status quo could continue. So the NHS costs the taxpayer so much more than it needs to because it is run without any genuine commercial stakeholders incentivised to do things better and more cost effectively.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a fan of the NHS in many ways, and I would not be in favour of privatising it, but it does need commercial influence and partnerships if it is to deliver the best and most cost effective health service for all to the benefit of all taxpayers. Nationalisation is simply not the panacea for better public service that it is often suggested to be

I worked on the NHS Spine project, made a shittload of cash off it lol!

That's proper socialism, everybody should have the same opportunities to get loads of cash...
 

Geo

Member
Messages
616
Why? Where is the evidence that they will be run better and will actually be cheaper in real terms ( ie when central subsidy, formal or informal is added in). In fact I could point you to a stack of evidence of the reverse, particularly in the NHS, which I have worked for as a contractor for over 20 years. The waste is truly shocking, and the reluctance of individuals to do things to improve service delivery or cost “because I am not personally incentivised to do this, so why should I put myself out and take the risk something going wrong and getting blamed”. You would not believe how many times I heard this over the years at so many different levels in clinical and management functions. Indeed, I regularly saw workers do things to ensure that great new initiatives failed just so that their comfortable status quo could continue. So the NHS costs the taxpayer so much more than it needs to because it is run without any genuine commercial stakeholders incentivised to do things better and more cost effectively.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m a fan of the NHS in many ways, and I would not be in favour of privatising it, but it does need commercial influence and partnerships if it is to deliver the best and most cost effective health service for all to the benefit of all taxpayers. Nationalisation is simply not the panacea for better public service that it is often suggested to be

I worked in the NHS for forty years and trust me the bad management and wastage was and is shocking. There are too many people in middle and upper management on way too big salaries that will protect their elevated positions by sacrificing the employees at the sharp end who actually deal with the patients.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,875
East Coast main line railways were taken out of private ownership due to failure of the company and ran at a profit successfully by the government for many years. This is the only example I know of but my point was surely one operator is enough for our small land mass. Agreed maybe not the government

Many, in this case, appears to be just over 5 (November 2009 - February 2015)

Interesting though, does look on the face of it to have been something of a win

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-line-returns-209m-to-taxpayers-8866157.html
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-only-publicly-owned-railway-7188623

Thanks

C