Brexit Deal

Wattie

Member
Messages
2,455
Welcome to the light brother...I’m actually choked with emotion right now in reading this from you Wattie. Brexit has certainly put us all through the ringer.

It’s amazing how some have managed to pitch people against each other, against our own institutions, then try to pave a way to making people doubt the impartiality/erode the trust of our very own judiciary systems, our checks and balances.

How in the world have we become a society that reads, sometimes accepts and then normalises headlines of “Traitors”, “enemies of the people”, “Political Elites” etc directly at those who hold an executive to account?
Then in the process managing to convince some to act against their own interest. It’s a clusterf... of a situation.

Dominic Cummings has a lot to answer for and considering he is the architect, I’m disgusted to also learn that with all his hypocrisy this bloke claims that leaving the EU allows the UK to spend an extra 350million a week on the NHS. He then goes on to clarify the claim by explaining “the Treasury gross figure is slightly more than 350 million of which we get back roughly half, though some of this is spent in absurd ways like subsidies for very rich landowners to do stupid things“. Hmmmh and this is the same guy who co owns a farm with his parents that received 235K in EU farming subsidies and positions himself as the person who wants to “demolish elites”.

I wonder if he’ll stick around to pick up the pieces.......

But anyway I’m genuinely glad to read that you honestly think it’s better that we stay in.:)
If you think I’m saying this out of enlightenment. You’re wrong.
It’s pity.
Our country is a total shambles and for you to claim it’s Cummings fault is far, far off the mark. The betrayal of Brexit started 700 days before he got involved.
I respect the latest incumbents for at least trying.....Johnson included, but hey were hobbled from the get go.
Facts are facts tho.the establishment and Mp are never going to allow this to happen (even tho it should imo- the EU is a bankrupt, undemocratic dictat).
Our parliament has reduced our Ukposition to farce, with no reasonable possibility of a decent deal or indeed preparation for no deal, through its sabotage or indeed lack of preparation for 700 odd days.
The propositions now being touted for the future are ridiculous.
You reap what you sow.
What has been sewn is ridicule and sub serviance to the Eu.
Makes me feel sick
 

MaserCoupe

Member
Messages
531
If you think I’m saying this out of enlightenment. You’re wrong.
It’s pity.
Our country is a total shambles and for you to claim it’s Cummings fault is far, far off the mark. The betrayal of Brexit started 700 days before he got involved.
I respect the latest incumbents for at least trying.....Johnson included, but hey were hobbled from the get go.
Facts are facts tho.the establishment and Mp are never going to allow this to happen (even tho it should imo- the EU is a bankrupt, undemocratic dictat).
Our parliament has reduced our Ukposition to farce, with no reasonable possibility of a decent deal or indeed preparation for no deal, through its sabotage or indeed lack of preparation for 700 odd days.
The propositions now being touted for the future are ridiculous.
You reap what you sow.
What has been sewn is ridicule and sub serviance to the Eu.
Makes me feel sick
We are all sick of it, that much I would agree. However, Wattie if you have changed your mind and you wouldn’t be alone in that thinking, Don’t you think we should be afforded a route to express that? Rather than having it seemingly being bulldozed through?:cool:
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
2,455
We are all sick of it, that much I would agree. However, Wattie if you have changed your mind and you wouldn’t be alone in that thinking, Don’t you think we should be afforded a route to express that? Rather than having it seemingly being bulldozed through?:cool:
I haven’t changed my mind- I would leave.
But the facts are it’s been that factd up and I can’t see how the Uk Can now secure a reasonable position. We’re negotiating for the other side against ourselves! Look at labours ridiculous position.
By the way I’d bulldoze it thru, but it seems It can’t be bulldozed thru, Mps have ensured that.
Unless something dramatic changes Tory/Brexit alliance....or a PM in jail.
What’s the point in voting again? We all voted once, leave won.
I’d rather A50 was revoked And we take it out on the 409 odd MPs and change the bullsh1t system that clearly overrides what the people wanted.
So it never happens again.
 
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Wanderer

Member
Messages
2,322
I like the EU. There I've said it. For some of us it's not all about money or politics or power. For me it's enlightenment, I've been able to live and work all over Europe with no barriers, workers rights have been improved, diversity enhanced, minorities given voices.

Compare that with UK late 60's to mid 70's. Also most of Europe apart from Scandi countries was the same. Things have improved enormously and some would argue it would have happened anyway with or without the EU, but I doubt it.

Of course economics is important, and the EU has spent a lot of our money and others' money in improving standards, rights, infra etc, but if we'd hadn't had that, that money would be in the back pockets of the rich. People rant on about 5th richest country etc, but who has/controls that money? No me and the likes of me. Here in Ireland there isn't the money or population to compete at the top level in economic size etc, but I feel the playing field is leveller here, there are rich people obvs, but there's not in my eyes this huge gap.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
Messages
9,565
Interesting post on facebook

seems like there's not much british industry left , they've made sure they've got it all

Borrowed from Steve Major
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales
. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
This post has more holes in it that a fishing net.
I honestly wouldn't know where to start.

Hornby is in Margate by the way. The've just put a museum on the side of the factory.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
4,521
This post has more holes in it that a fishing net.
I honestly wouldn't know where to start.

Hornby is in Margate by the way. The've just put a museum on the side of the factory.
There's a warehouse and a visitor centre in margate but as far as I can see all the trains are made in China.

I haven't checked all the statistics but transit is built in turkey so feel free to demolish it
 

breezer

Junior Member
Messages
93
If you think I’m saying this out of enlightenment. You’re wrong.
It’s pity.
Our country is a total shambles and for you to claim it’s Cummings fault is far, far off the mark. The betrayal of Brexit started 700 days before he got involved.
I respect the latest incumbents for at least trying.....Johnson included, but hey were hobbled from the get go.
Facts are facts tho.the establishment and Mp are never going to allow this to happen (even tho it should imo- the EU is a bankrupt, undemocratic dictat).
Our parliament has reduced our Ukposition to farce, with no reasonable possibility of a decent deal or indeed preparation for no deal, through its sabotage or indeed lack of preparation for 700 odd days.
The propositions now being touted for the future are ridiculous.
You reap what you sow.
What has been sewn is ridicule and sub serviance to the Eu.
Makes me feel sick
Don’t give up! I was a moderate Brexit voter - I voted leave by a very small margin. However, the more this thing has progressed the more I want to see the whole edifice burn to the ground. **** them and **** the traitorous remainers in government here. I want them to bleed.

There are many of us now. If we stay in we’ll lose our veto, our rebate, and our right to avoid the Euro. We simply can’t let that happen. Support your local leave MP.
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
631
On a constant basis Zep...the Ecb is buying Italian bonds.....like its buying everyone else who's bust bonds!
Thats my point, they've done all this, achieved nothing and now they're changing all their own rules to go out and do it all again....to keep all these bankrupt countries afloat! The trouble is some are now doubting its effectiveness....so what on earth have they got left when the credibility is gone!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-11-08/italy-can-t-keep-relying-on-draghi-until-the-end-of-time

Unless of course you do something the EU doesnt like cos it then stops said purchases as a threat to destabilise


The situation is so bad nowadays that you cannot have a normal business cycle of growth/recession. everything has become too big to fail. Europe is totally reliant on ECB money out of thin air.......it now over 40% of EU GDP!

View attachment 60192
Have you checked the FED’s ?
Let’s see what the BoE does when it’s on its own post Brexit, and the market start fearing for liquidity in the UK... you watch
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
2,455
Have you checked the FED’s ?
Let’s see what the BoE does when it’s on its own post Brexit, and the market start fearing for liquidity in the UK... you watch
Same ponzi Riverama, said it all previously and the Uk too could print it’s way through Brexit- even tho it’s totally irresponsible no one gives a feck anymore. Politicians, Economists, bankers, stockbrokers apparantly think it’s brilliant.
Wt serious f?
 
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Wattie

Member
Messages
2,455
Don’t give up! I was a moderate Brexit voter - I voted leave by a very small margin. However, the more this thing has progressed the more I want to see the whole edifice burn to the ground. ** them and ** the traitorous remainers in government here. I want them to bleed.

There are many of us now. If we stay in we’ll lose our veto, our rebate, and our right to avoid the Euro. We simply can’t let that happen. Support your local leave MP.
So here’s my take on the current sad reality.

The Eu says the only deal is Mays deal. End of.
Brexit needs a majority in the hop. There isn’t one.
In fact 73% of MPs are remainers.

No deal is illegal now so unless Johnson has some illegal plan that ain’t gonna happen. Even if he does Bercow says he will move to block such happening.

So the options
  1. An Eu extension being granted but what do they have to gain from that- given they don’t want us to leave.why give the shambles more time?
  2. No extension granted leading to the hop revoking A50 (my gut tells me this will happen) to avoid crashing out with no deal
  3. A Brexit majority can be achieved via an election but the remainer MPs realize this and don’t wanna offer one. Even an election would likely require a Tory/Brexit party alliance and that has been ruled out by Johnson. Ironically you would likely be voting for remain MPs once again who betrayed the first vote! What a joke.
  4. Remainer Mps therefore want another referendum before an election- to cease Brexit. Feck knows the questions on it but they’ll be remainer biased..... might even have the thrice rejected May deal in it, unlikely to have a no deal option.A win for remain will finish it. Leavers need to win a second time and then what... it’s in the hands of all those that betrayed it again first time around! Labour will apparently let its MPs campaign on both leave and remain!
  5. Long shot- the current Pm and govt resigns blaming Corbyn on delays. He has 14 days to form a govt and negotiate a new deal ( how u do that when you’ve taken off the threat of no deal and the Eu says there isn’t another version is beyond me) Corbyn doesn’t even back staying or remaining so wtf we’d end up with I’ve no idea.
Hence why I don’t see leave happening anytime soon.
One things for sure, the United Kingdom isn’t united anymore. It’s fragmented and ****** beyond belief.
Ireland is the cultural disaster it’s allways been.divided by religion, allegiance and now economic/currency ties.
Scotland wants to stay in the Eu but leave the Uk!
England’s rule by Eton elites has been shown to be wholly shambolic, outright dishonest and totally out of touch.

A banana republic is what we’ve become, cos what’s happening is bananas.
 
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Wanderer

Member
Messages
2,322
My mother's side is Welsh, my father's Irish, which is where I identify myself, I've lived in Scotland and two of my kids are Scots, and I can see the end of the Union is guaranteed, it's an outmoded model, has to go.

But I'm English born, and I don't identify myself with the Eton Rifles lot that rules, but having said that the cultural ties are strong, so I can see a Nordic model emerging from the broken-up UK, but without the strong sense of social obligation just England still trying to extract what it can from the others. Socialism will never sit well with London.
 

Wattie

Member
Messages
2,455
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