Why I'm going EV, and another thing!!

GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

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My thoughts on EV's are as follows:

  1. Range anxiety, whilst there is that there will always be hesitancy in buying them. Well from me anyway.
  2. EV's cannot possibly claim to be environmentally friendly until the source of their power is 100% green. So whilst 40% of the UK's power comes from gas, and even coal now and again, it's all just greenwashing.

Once both of those have been addressed, I might look at one. Along with having an ICE car for fun.
 
mowlas

mowlas

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I wanted to thank all the shares on this topic and I’m cogitating to understand how they all add up. Not there yet….

Here is one other dimension to consider when we discuss sustainability…. The issue of cobalt mining to supply car batteries which carries a significant human cost…

 
Devonboy

Devonboy

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I am afraid, the big picture is clear. We are all going to have the buy new, speed limited, trackable EV's over the next 30 years. Politicians now want to control every aspect of our lives, from State approved phone cables right though to how and what we drive....while they fly by private jet
 
safrane

safrane

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You forgot what we eat and wear etc.... no more Beef than we had during rationing in the War, no more cheep fashion, no more open fires, ration flights for the masses... Its stealth communism!
 
Tallman

Tallman

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Oneball said:
The Volvo EV assembly is less because the battery isn’t made by Volvo. There’s 62.5% greater emissions from producing the EV verses ICE when the battery manufacture is included. It’s only when you factor in a 200,000km life that the EV starts to win the carbon argument
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This is where it falls down. Rich people buying EVs as a 3rd car to use around town and go to the shops doesn’t add up.
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Yes, I was talking about the assembly, not the total manufacture. Most parts in the auto industry are made by subcontractors, the factory usually produces the body, paints it and assembles the subcontracted parts.

Total emissions for an EV are more of course at the moment because of the battery, especially when that battery is made in a country where electricity isn’t “green”. I think you have to factor in what the trend re electricity generation is, it’s not a snap shot, it’s where it’s going and where it’s going to end up.

Having an EV as a third car does not work if you keep it for life. Most (rich) people buying their third car will however not keep it for life and move on after a few years. It’s the cars life that matters, not the first owners tenure.
 
Oneball

Oneball

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safrane said:
You forgot what we eat and wear etc.... no more Beef than we had during rationing in the War, no more cheep fashion, no more open fires, ration flights for the masses... Its stealth communism!
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Rationing created the healthiest diet the UK population has ever had and over 1/2 the uk population was banned from burning coal or logs in the 1950s.
 
Devonboy

Devonboy

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Oneball said:
Rationing created the healthiest diet the UK population has ever had and over 1/2 the uk population was banned from burning coal or logs in the 1950s.
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As the legendary John McGuiness said about the TT race - I would rather have 48 great years than 60 S**t ones. That should not be a decision for the State
 
GeoffCapes

GeoffCapes

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mowlas said:
I wanted to thank all the shares on this topic and I’m cogitating to understand how they all add up. Not there yet….

Here is one other dimension to consider when we discuss sustainability…. The issue of cobalt mining to supply car batteries which carries a significant human cost…

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The other thing which I haven't seen much (lately) about is the supply of cobalt, especially as it goes into EV's, but it also goes into battery storage for renewable energy projects and countless other things such as phones etc.
There must be huge amounts of undeclared cobalt in places like China or the USA as there's no way DR Congo is going to be allowed to have 70% of the worlds cobalt and effectively control the market price.

If you get 4-30kgs of the stuff in an electric car, you're looking at a several tonnes of the stuff for BESS projects.
I've got a client who has two BESS (Battery Energy Storage System) projects one is 162MW and the other is 34MW.

So doing the maths there's roughly 20kg in 100KW battery, then the two projects above have nearly 400 tonnes of the stuff. And BESS projects are huge at the moment with them being added to practically every new renewable project being designed across the world.
 
Devonboy

Devonboy

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CatmanV2 said:
However, if you end up costing the state thousands to keep you alive because of choices you make....

C
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Oh always that nonsense point. That is the path to total control. Driving since 18, clean licence and no accidents........the combination of a full life we manage and not the state is not something we should be afraid to reach for. You enjoy your 60 with decisions made by others.....
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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Devonboy said:
Oh always that nonsense point. That is the path to total control. Driving since 18, clean licence and no accidents........the combination of a full life we manage and not the state is not something we should be afraid to reach for. You enjoy your 60 with decisions made by others.....
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I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's an absolute. If your definition of a good life is eating ****, never moving from the sofa and putting on as much weight as possible while not contributing anything to society, why the **** should I be expected to pay for your long term care.

Clearly that is not your choice (nor mine) but it is a choice, and I am aware it's a straw man (or even ad absudio) but it's equally nonsense to suggest that everyone who drives will do so with the care and diligence that you suggest and that somehow your definition of a full life is the only valid one.

I struggle to think you really are so naive as to believe that any society above that of a hunter gatherer is free of decisions made by others on your behalf.

C
 
Devonboy

Devonboy

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CatmanV2 said:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's an absolute. If your definition of a good life is eating *, never moving from the sofa and putting on as much weight as possible while not contributing anything to society, why the * should I be expected to pay for your long term care.

Clearly that is not your choice (nor mine) but it is a choice, and I am aware it's a straw man (or even ad absudio) but it's equally nonsense to suggest that everyone who drives will do so with the care and diligence that you suggest and that somehow your definition of a full life is the only valid one.

I struggle to think you really are so naive as to believe that any society above that of a hunter gatherer is free of decisions made by others on your behalf.

C
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It is where the line is drawn, the bar is too low. This is now turning into twitter - let's agree to disagree over the amount of state involvement in important matters in peoples live like phone cables and get back to cars.
 
CatmanV2

CatmanV2

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Devonboy said:
It is where the line is drawn, the bar is too low. This is now turning into twitter - let's agree to disagree over the amount of state involvement in important matters in peoples live like phone cables and get back to cars.
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I think we actually agree, but....

Sure

C
 
Ewan

Ewan

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6,812
Collating the EV threads, it boils down to this.
Those of us on here that have them, like them. Without exception.
Those of us on here that don’t have them (yet) have chosen not to for a variety of reasons, some more valid than others.
So, all as normal and as to be expected.
By the time the final ICE dinosaurs are forced into them, they’ll be so amazing in terms of range, speed, low running costs etc that they’ll wonder why they didn’t swap over earlier
 
Phil H

Phil H

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Ewan said:
By the time the final ICE dinosaurs are forced into them, they’ll be so amazing in terms of range, speed, low running costs etc that they’ll wonder why they didn’t swap over earlier
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And BoJo will still be Prime Minister :eek:
 
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