What a load of shite

[midlifecrisis]

I make this two “electric cars are rubbish” threads in a week. Maybe a bit of a break now?

Yes we need a break and recharge...

 

[rockits]

They don't have brakes do they? One pedal driving with aggressive regen

 

[bigbob]

As ive said you really cant have an elec car as your only car at the moment

I think this is spot on. For most of us who have 3+ cars then having an electric car makes a lot of sense for most runs but no one makes a fun car yet that works for me as a BEV and also no one makes a BEV main car that works for me as I go up and down from rural Scotland to middle/southern England at least every other month and I'm not playing the charging game for these journeys.

 

[bigbob]

I make this two “electric cars are rubbish” threads in a week. Maybe a bit of a break now?

I am surprised there is not more and it is more relevant than much of the non-car junk that has appeared on here in the last two years. I have no spiritual hang up with the death of ICE cars and might buy a shopping BEV once they are cheaper and will be buying a BEV main car in five years or so but my point in the initial post is that current high end BEVs are going to become very undesirable very quickly once battery technology improves. I guess that 5-10 years out the Nettuno V6 engined GranTurismos will be worth more than the BEV versions despite the inverted new price differential.

 

[spkennyuk]

Im just waiting for the car is worthless formula to be worked out.

Maserarati ICE vehicle 50k miles = worthless.

Maserati EV " X " years old = worthless

Maserati EV " X " number of recharge cycles regardless of age = worthless

Im sure somebody can come up with figures for X for each equation.

 

[DLax69]

I make this two “electric cars are rubbish” threads in a week. Maybe a bit of a break now?

...at least I'm not the one causing this!

 

[Tallman]

I’ll respectfully disagree, it’s easy to shoot holes in anything isn’t it? EV’s do not yet have all the functionality of ICE’s. They have some functionality that ICE’s don’t have. There are hybrids. There’s improving battery capacity and decreasing charging times. There’s increasing cleanliness of electricity. At this stage it’s horses for courses. For some applications EV’s are superior (and as an owner of one I can tell - don’t go around rubbishing something you have no active experience with..).

We have more than 1 car, but the EV gets used most of all by some margin, that should say enough- it’s also fun to drive actually, something some of us will get their head around at some stage when they actually try one in real life applications. For some applications ICE’s are superior, daily range of more than x miles being one. If I need to go on a road trip I don’t use the EV, but for anything else, bar giving the QPV a nice run, at this stage, it’s the preferred mode of transport.

I should add that we have very challenging charging conditions with rolling black-outs of up to 10 (!) hours per day - granted, I have solar panels, (shot) batteries and we have a bit more sun than most here . But even with that, I’m still only using a normal plug point to charge the car, I haven’t bothered to install the dedicated (faster) charging station that I got with the car…nuf said. To each there own of course but facts and the correct logic for the use of each application are important. Neither ICE nor EV are one size fits all.

 

[mowlas]

Both the Times and Telegraph report that Autotrader has seen a slowing down in demand for EVs in November due to a combination of

• Recent removal of the £1,500 grant in June
• Rising energy prices and fears of further rises due to the lack of energy subsidy support for businesses
• Introduction of EV road tax from 2025
• Gradual lowering of petrol prices

Nathan Coe, CEO of Autotrader, said that whilst sales for the first half of 2022 exceeded expectations, the slowdown in EVs was not dramatic, but feedback from customers pointed to affordability and concerns about topping up with expensive electricity. “Twelve months ago they were by far the fastest growth market. But demand has suffered a bit. Electric vehicles are not necessarily cheap. If you combine range anxiety with the cost of electricity then it becomes an issue.”

I'm not at all sure Maserati has pitched the Folgore GT right. It doesn't compete on range, doesn't compete on price and, although it looks sexy, it may not differentiate that much on looks either based on the next generation concept designs we are seeing from some of the big players. The meaning of grand tourer is completely lost with its real world range.... so what is it for? I'm completely with @bigbob's original post on this one.

 

[safrane]

I would love one, but doubt it will ever be at my price point for the amount of use it would get; and when I do use my current Maser it is as a GT rather than anything else (hence almost zero miles during COVID restrictions on cross country travel).

The cost of topping up would not put me off as it is comparable to c30+mpg, which you would never get from our V8s... It would be the availability of a working charge point on route and at the hotel that could make or break your euro trips.

 

[Zep]

I’m not sure, if there are people out there buying Taycans and Etrons, then there is a market for a Foglore. The theory that current tech cars will be worthless should obviously be debunked, plenty of people here own 3200s and 4200s let alone BiTurbo era cars, which the greater population would consider having their heads read before buying. There is a greater than 50% chance Stelantis will have looked at the accessible market before committing the development budget.

As for nuanced discussion around EVs, I feel I should point out that the thread title is “What a Load of Shite”. In this case the clue isn’t in the name.

 

[safrane]

With most Taycans and Etrons being bought either on PCP or via a company, with the Maser be seen in the same light, as a bit of a left field choice like the Ghibli III was. Will it sell at a similar % of cars sold?

 

[mowlas]

Also a Taycan Turbo S starts at around £142,000. Almost £60,000 less than the anticipated Folgore GT price.

 

[bigbob]

As for nuanced discussion around EVs, I feel I should point out that the thread title is “What a Load of Shite”. In this case the clue isn’t in the name.

The post title was clearly not nuanced but was an interesting piece of clickbait. Obviously the mods can change their asterisk machine and/or change the title if they wish.

I have just re-read my initial post and I thought it was pretty specific, it was certainly nuanced in my mind, then and now. 'Special 'cars tend to live for longer than normal cars before they are scrapped so they need to have something that appeals a decade+ down the road. The 3200/4200 have it as will the V6 Nettuno IMHO but the electric GranTurismo and the Taycan do not have it. They use an interim technology fuelled by tax breaks to make something which is superficially attractive but, actually, does not deliver like a BEV will in 5-10 years time will once battery tech improves. That's my point. There is a reason why most top end manufacturers have not brought out halo BEV cars yet - the tech is still in its infancy and is not good enough.

I guess, though, that whenever people post on anything to do with BEVs then both extreme views extrapolate with the 'tech leaders' talking about the amazing acceleration that these cars have and muttering something about horses whereas the 'luddites' talk about engine noise, rev matching and passion. We need to keep having these posts to chat about what works for most of us with BEVs and what does not.

 

[DLax69]

My nuclear-fusion-powered flying car is gonna be AWESOME

 

[Oneball]

My nuclear-fusion-powered flying car is gonna be AWESOME

Not quite a car but it was tried

 

[DLax69]

 

[CatmanV2]

My nuclear-fusion-powered flying car is gonna be AWESOME

'Briefly'

C

 

[Mavster]

View attachment 109323

How simple life was in the Jetsons days !

 

[Zep]

I guess, though, that whenever people post on anything to do with BEVs then both extreme views extrapolate

This, in particular, was what I meant.

I am very much in favour of discussions about how it fits in the car ecosystem. No solution is perfect because everyone uses cars in different ways.

 

[bigbob]

This, in particular, was what I meant.

I am very much in favour of discussions about how it fits in the car ecosystem. No solution is perfect because everyone uses cars in different ways.

Yep. Was at a big gathering recently and one guy came in a BEV a reasonable distance up the country with the message 'don't buy a BEV as your only car'. He had tales of broken chargers, queuing up, lots of coffee and real world range being a lot less when you look at charger max stay, peer pressure of two cars sat waiting for you to go and the slowness of getting the last 10-20% in if you have a long way to go. It was a great car to be driven in and for those lucky enough to get company cars and minimal BIK they make a lot of sense as long as the family has at least one other car too.

The real game changer is going to be affordable small BEVs that we can all buy or PCP with our own money for most journeys as long as you have something else for the long stuff. At least that reduces emissions where it matters in towns and cities.