ULEZ is expanding

[keith]

I would not worry too much;

1. You cant drive in London anyway, its just queuing
2. Mr Khan will move the goal posts again soon, so even compliant cars today will be the spawn of Satan tomorrow

Interestingly, central London during the evening is more chaotic than during the day. As you say, it's only a matter of time before the goal posts move, and then they start to go for newer petrol and diesel. Of course the MUGS that are the British motorists will just shrug and pay the tax! Also the media are all 'green' friendly so they will never report on how the drivers are being ripped off!
As I've said many times that's why I knew I had to go EV certainly for my more rarely used 'big car', and my daily an '18 reg DS3 auto with a 1.2 litre 3 cylinder engine should be safe for a while longer.

 

[safrane]

We

We take the M49 from the bridge then the Portway along the gorge. I think this is where the ULEZ can get in the way. I may be wrong so any better route suggestion much appreciated.

2 options;
Via the Gordano Services junction and towards Failand, or
Off at Cribbs and via Clifton and Lee-woods

 

[Gooner]

I’ve learned a bit more about the ULEZ expansion, having written to Transport for London and Maserati. I also read up about the US and European spec catalysts for the 4200 (I have an early Spyder).

I worked out that, given my use of my car, I can expect to pay about £600 per year in ULEZ charges for my car emitting 75g of NOx into the ULEZ zone. Someone who commutes every day within the ULEZ in a brand new Euro 6 car will emit about 600g of NOx in a year, and pay nothing. A cleaner working 3 nights a week and travelling to work in their old hatchback will also emit 600g of NOx but will pay about £1500 a year.

ULEZ compliance is very specifically about NOx and Particulate emissions. TfL don’t care about how much CO2, HC etc. that your car produces (their email to me states this). Strictly speaking petrol cars don’t even have to be Euro 4 compliant, they just need to emit less than 0.08g/km of NOx. However, TfL offer no means of proving that except via the manufacturer i.e. they won’t test your car if you modify it.

The NOx emission levels are stated on your car’s V5. Mine is about 0.15g/km. I have the Euro spec catalyst in my 2002 Spyder as far as I can see. A brand new Euro 6 compliant car will produce 0.06g/km or less, but not that much less than a Euro 4 car.

FWIW I live just under 500m inside the new expanded ULEZ boundary, so I will have to pay for every journey even if it is just to get to the edge of the boundary. I’ve always used public transport for commuting etc. and I cycle a lot, don’t really drive in London as such.

 

[2b1ask1]

TfL offer no means of proving that except via the manufacturer i.e. they won’t test your car if you modify it.

Actually, I'm lead to believe that you can now test and certify you modified vehicle, at least you can for motorcycles! There is however only one registered tester for motorcycles, it costs about £180 but there is no guarantee of passing. I'm assuming there are or will be testing centres for cars and larger vehicles. For motorcycles this is to cover machines made before 2007 that may well be compliant or that you have modified to be.

 

[Gooner]

Yes, you can for motorcycles but not cars unfortunately.

 

[SE_123]

Yes, you can for motorcycles but not cars unfortunately.

Shame they can't make that part of the MOT test.

 

[safrane]

Wonder if it has had any impact on house prices?

 

[midlifecrisis]

I’ve learned a bit more about the ULEZ expansion, having written to Transport for London and Maserati. I also read up about the US and European spec catalysts for the 4200 (I have an early Spyder).

I worked out that, given my use of my car, I can expect to pay about £600 per year in ULEZ charges for my car emitting 75g of NOx into the ULEZ zone. Someone who commutes every day within the ULEZ in a brand new Euro 6 car will emit about 600g of NOx in a year, and pay nothing. A cleaner working 3 nights a week and travelling to work in their old hatchback will also emit 600g of NOx but will pay about £1500 a year.

ULEZ compliance is very specifically about NOx and Particulate emissions. TfL don’t care about how much CO2, HC etc. that your car produces (their email to me states this). Strictly speaking petrol cars don’t even have to be Euro 4 compliant, they just need to emit less than 0.08g/km of NOx. However, TfL offer no means of proving that except via the manufacturer i.e. they won’t test your car if you modify it.

The NOx emission levels are stated on your car’s V5. Mine is about 0.15g/km. I have the Euro spec catalyst in my 2002 Spyder as far as I can see. A brand new Euro 6 compliant car will produce 0.06g/km or less, but not that much less than a Euro 4 car.

FWIW I live just under 500m inside the new expanded ULEZ boundary, so I will have to pay for every journey even if it is just to get to the edge of the boundary. I’ve always used public transport for commuting etc. and I cycle a lot, don’t really drive in London as such.

So if you were to convert your car to electric, you'd still be charged ULEZ?

 

[Gooner]

Wonder if it has had any impact on house prices?

I doubt the current expanded ULEZ will, as it disproportionately affects a small number of drivers. It may affect our high street as it will put off people with non-compliant cars in surrounding towns from driving here.

It’s a common tactic by leaders with a problem that requires some painful solutions. Pick a minority to blame and penalise them, leaving everyone else relieved that a) they can feel it’s not their fault and b) they don’t have to accept any of the pain.

In a few years’ time many more vehicles will be brought within the remit if ULEZ and I’m pretty sure it will make a difference to house prices then. Hopefully by that point there will at least be some kind of proper road charging scheme so that the amount you pay is actually proportional to the emissions your car emits and the distance you drive. Of course we already have a pretty good proxy for that in fuel duty combined with differential road tax. That money doesn’t go to TfL though so we will all end up being taxed twice I think. By ‘we’ I mean anyone driving or living in London.

 

[Gooner]

So if you were to convert your car to electric, you'd still be charged ULEZ?

Unless you can get a manufacturer to update the DVLA database, is my understanding. A friend with a Tesla got fined the first time he drove in the original ULEZ. After a lot of arguing he got TfL to refresh their data for his car and refund the fine. TfL didn’t offer any way for him to prove his car was compliant though.

Maybe if you called them up there would be a way to get it done. I said I was modifying my car so it would be compliant and how could I get my classification changed. They just said they wouldn’t do tests and referred me to the manufacturer.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Unless you can get a manufacturer to update the DVLA database, is my understanding. A friend with a Tesla got fined the first time he drove in the original ULEZ. After a lot of arguing he got TfL to refresh their data for his car and refund the fine. TfL didn’t offer any way for him to prove his car was compliant though.

Maybe if you called them up there would be a way to get it done. I said I was modifying my car so it would be compliant and how could I get my classification changed. They just said they wouldn’t do tests and referred me to the manufacturer.

Which is what I'm alluding to. The system seems so bureaucratic and cumbersome for those wanting to reduce their environmental impact by modifying their car.

I'm sure the HVCA would have something to say about this. There's also synthetic fuels available soon that are cleaner than fossil fuels.

This smacks of a politician being seen to do 'the right thing' but actually being counterproductive.

 

[CatmanV2]

It's curiously regressive as well in that those driving non-compliant cars are less likely to be able to afford to pay the extra, or afford a new car. It's not like we're talking about residents of Islington driving around in classic Rollers....

C

 

[Swedish Paul]

Will Jonny Foreigners be exempt? A nice Swedish number plate perhaps? Is Europe sharing this data?

 

[Gooner]

Will Jonny Foreigners be exempt? A nice Swedish number plate perhaps? Is Europe sharing this data?

I doubt there is any sharing data with Europe. I inadvertently drove through the Rouen low emission zone on the way back from Le Mans and didn’t hear anything about it. If you’ve got a Swedish number plate, go for it .

 

[Gooner]

It's curiously regressive as well in that those driving non-compliant cars are less likely to be able to afford to pay the extra, or afford a new car. It's not like we're talking about residents of Islington driving around in classic Rollers....

C

Exactly. I don’t like the unfairness of it but speaking personally I can afford an extra £600 a year to spend on my toy, and if I can’t it’s not the end of the world. What a tradesperson with a 10 year old diesel van does, or a young single parent with an 8 year old diesel hatchback does, I just don’t know.

Meanwhile we are still subsidising the fuel cost for electric cars, even if the purchase cost subsidies are tapering off now.

 

[Gooner]

This smacks of a politician being seen to do 'the right thing' but actually being counterproductive.

He’s wants to be seen to do the right thing but he’s really doing it to fill a huge hole in TfL’s finances. He made a commitment not to raise fares in order to get elected, then when the pandemic hit, TfL was already in financial trouble. He’s also doing things like selling off tube station car parks to build 10 story blocks of flats. Anything to avoid admitting that he screwed up TfL and that we should all have to pay more council tax to make up the difference.

That’s why he will have to bring more cars into the net. Once everyone in London has a ULEZ compliant car then he’ll need to get the revenue from somewhere else. It will become a permanent levy on driving in London.

That’s my view anyway (and what many Londoners believe).

 

[Wack61]

I doubt the current expanded ULEZ will, as it disproportionately affects a small number of drivers. It may affect our high street as it will put off people with non-compliant cars in surrounding towns from driving here.

A girl with a shop in a destination high street in Hackney has just closed her doors and moved

Said they were doing OK until a LTN appeared outside her door, drivers can't go through it so rather than drive round to get there they just don't bother, she said sales dropped 20% overnight, shopkeepers don't want it residents don't want it, it's been forced on them

 

[2b1ask1]

He’s wants to be seen to do the right thing but he’s really doing it to fill a huge hole in TfL’s finances. He made a commitment not to raise fares in order to get elected, then when the pandemic hit, TfL was already in financial trouble. He’s also doing things like selling off tube station car parks to build 10 story blocks of flats. Anything to avoid admitting that he screwed up TfL and that we should all have to pay more council tax to make up the difference.

That’s why he will have to bring more cars into the net. Once everyone in London has a ULEZ compliant car then he’ll need to get the revenue from somewhere else. It will become a permanent levy on driving in London.

That’s my view anyway (and what many Londoners believe).

Exactly, it is sad however that the car is the easiest target. With a Greater London wide network of ANPR cameras taking it in, they will no doubt move up to Euro 5 for petrol and…. Errs; whops there isn’t anywhere to go with diesel apart from charging ALL diesels.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Doesn't the majority of the particulates come from London buses?

 

[2b1ask1]

Doesn't the majority of the particulates come from London buses?

Yes but they are exempt!