My car priorities must change

Wanderer

Member
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5,791
Just a thought. Your father loved you? Would he want you to be wracked with guilt over something you said in the heat of the moment? Or would he rather you made peace and moved on?

C
You're right C, my dad was quiet, unassuming, never had any 'feelings' he showed us but I know it was they it was then. I think I might go to his grave and speak to him, I don't believe in all that guff but it might help me, I never go, suppose I blanked it all out rather than deal with it.

Like Victoria Wood wrote in the largely comedic 'Pat And Margaret' paraphrased, - 'My God, you stuff all these memories away then you open a drawer and there they all are, waiting to be dealt with...' - so true.....
 
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1,687
Side note - some deep and philosophical conversations on this thread... who would have thought petrolheads were also capable of that between 2 posts about cars, booze and (.)(.)
Funny you should mention booze and (.)(.) ........ :p

As I was saying earlier. Personalities are largely determined, before kids set foot in a nursery school.
However, behaviours can of course be influenced and usually mostly by our parents.
As one of us said. We become our fathers. That ought to lend some credence to the theory of personality largely
being determined by our genetics.
Teachers have often told me, that without positive parental influences, there's a limit to what they can do.
Perhaps its not so much about being the best parent you can be and more about being the best man you can be.
Leading by example is a mantra in the forces. Why not in the home. (okay, that's a stretch, but fatigue is setting in)
I have no idea where the last fifty-three years have gone. Taking stock now, hammers home with the brutality of unvarnished
truth, that a happy life, well led is the thing to aspire to. The best things that have happened to me, have happened because
I was in a place where I was open to opportunities and if an attractive one came along, I tended to grab it.
My life has been like a game of snakes and ladders. Its been hugely challenging in parts and many experiences I could've done
without. But, its never, ever been dull. In trying to be the best human being I can be. The journey will never stop.
However, I do wish that I'd put more effort into being happy in the moment and a lot less into chasing material wealth.
I've headhunted and interviewed thousands and I will never, ever again ask the question. What's your five year plan?
Instead, my first question will usually be. Are you happy?
I believe, that by nurturing positive, confident, happy little humans, they will create their own luck and endless opportunities.
By being a positive role model, they will develop the wisdom to know which opportunities to grab and which to pass on.
In so doing, they might be more likely to discover their passion. As we all know by now, getting to spend your time doing what you're really passionate about, is a huge gift. And all other things usually work themselves out.
Coming back to schools.
I honestly don't believe that it much matters whether a school is fee paying or not. If all of its staff are committed to the growth of those for which they are in loco parentis, they will inspire and encourage their pupils to aspire. I do think that this is the difference between many state and private schools. In too many state schools, teaching has become more about riot control than learning.
This isn't about socialist or capitalist influenced systems of education. Its about where we choose to allocate very scarce resources as a nation. By being born in a western democratic country, today's school kids have already won life's golden ticket. Being born to care for a sick single parent on a sink estate may not feel like winning much of anything. The fact remains, that you can overcome the circumstances into which you are born, if you choose to. The ability to choose which path to follow, is largely something that eludes most children in developing or failed countries.
And 'trust me on the sunscreen.' ;)
 

rockits

Member
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9,172
Thanks and massive respect for sharing Wanderer. I too am quite emotional to a point and have often just let it all pour out at times when it can get a bit too much for one human to take. Often on my own and often in lovely simple surroundings.

This is exactly the ad hoc reason the forum exists just as important as the cars IMHO. We are all here to help each other, share experiences, share knowledge and support each other.

You shouldn't have regret. It doesn't do anyone any favours. Your dad wouldn't want that. It is not a fair burden to bear.

I am not academically clever or intelligent but a grafter and massively resilient. Maybe the polar opposite to yourself.

You should applaud your life efforts as you have done alright from humble beginnings. Maybe we are similar in other ways though as demand too much of yourself at times.

These threads for me are fantastic where the archetypical British male opens up more than we always used to so has to be a good thing. See....we have learnt something over the years.
 

philw696

Member
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25,428
Respect to all you guys opening up and sharing our life experiences along with our automotive ones which sometimes can take over our lives can only be a good thing.
From an ageing hippy here in France Peace and Love to you all.
 

Wanderer

Member
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5,791
Feel a lot better, opening up even to strangers is good, my son is in the house with me and I know he knows I got upset but like me at his age, he cant deal with it and has gone to bed to avoid!

We are all uptight Brits and I like to think I for one have opened up. Kids next, my girls are pretty emotional and happy with it, just the lad to work on!
 

rockits

Member
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9,172
I think we have come a long way already from our parents in just one generation of change. This shows we can fashion change very quickly if we choose to and apply ourselves with the right resource.

This is what both impresses and hugely disappoints me about us as humans. We can do such amazing things and also do such terrible things. Brexit being just one.....3 years to achieve pretty much sweet fa....crazy.

For me climate change has given us an amazing opportunity to fashion change and quickly. Yet we are choosing to ignore the best opportunity to fashion agressive, fast and long lasting changes we have. Crazy.

I don't doubt our parents often didn't SHOW us the love they felt or had deep inside as they weren't equipped or know how to do show or present this. I can't forget this but I have to understand and forgive it. I would never raise a hand to my wife or my children as I don't think it is right, required or good. I don't believe it has done me any favours and causes me more issues than it helped with. One good thing it did do for me is have a massively strong resistance to use this terrible act as a way to deal with issues. We need to be better than this as this isn't even a last resort. It is plain bullying IMHO and should never exist in any intelligent life form.

One thing I have come to terms with is that I really don't care any more what others think of me or if I have made my parents proud or what they think. I use myself as my own yardstick as I am better informed and a better person to decide this.

It might sound arrogant but it isn't meant to be but I genuinely feel I am a much better all round person on pretty much all levels than my parents. I guess in a perverse way that means they succeeded as parents. However only partially as I believe most of this has been achieved by me alone. They gave me some helpful foundations, ideals, morals and a very strong work ethic but it is pretty level for me. There was just as much bad as good for me thus neutral at best in that regard.

I don't see any of this as a problem and worry less if at all about it now than I ever used to.

Wanderer....go and talk to your dad at his grave. Give it a try.....it may be good, bad or indifferent but you will never know until you try. You need to make peace with yourself and get yourself in a solid place then are well placed to help your kids. Easy to say....well nearly....but harder to do/achieve. You need to be so many things to your kids but honesty, love care and attention is simple but effective.

I thought my parents were the Bible and knew it all and was forcibly afraid to think otherwise. As it turns out they didn't and the made tons of mistakes. Elements at my expense. This doesn't disappear overnight.

I do agree you can end up being your dad quite easily. I am sure as **** not my dad and better for it. I never wanted to be. I've taken any good bits and inherited those and thrown all the other sh1te away. I have evolved in to a much better and more advanced human being.

I'm happy being me. It takes a while to get to that point. However I think it equips us more to help our kids to get to that point quicker. That has to be a great thing.

Sometimes throw caution to the wind and throw yourself into areas your emotions or soul has never seen. I never amaze myself as I know my ability is great even though you have done some really amazing things.

Even if this forum or thread is just a way of getting stuff/emotions out of your head for you to write and read it is no bad thing. Long may it continue. There is nothing wrong with passion, tears and emotion....embrace it. iMHO it makes you stronger not weaker.
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
Cheers Phil, it was hard to type out, especially on a random forum, but stuff it, that's life...

It takes a good and confident man to look inside and share his emotion. Thanks for sharing.
I agree w C about your remorse... and having kids yourselves you know that everything they say is driven by hormones most of the times and you don’t love them less because of what they say. Love is bigger than that. Your dad felt the same!
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,773
I very much look forward to the day when I get to meet you guys.
Living as I do, in Bushmills. Home of the oldest whiskey distillery
in the world.
I obviously won't come empty handed! :D

I'm nothing like this in real life. For a start I never liked Bushmills :D

C
 

Vampyrebat

Member
Messages
3,129
This has been the most interesting and emotional thread that I have ever seen in the 3 years or so I have been a member. I doff my cap to you all with the greatest respect from me. Our only son Louis was born very premature at 1b 6oz and at the time was told that there was a 50/50 chance that my wife and child would survive.
Luckily everything turned out for the best. It has made me a better man and get my priorities in order. Louis now a healthy 15 year old has always been in public school and has always tried his best. I don't think he will get the grades for university, I don't think he wants to go. As long as he can stand on his own two feet and be happy with life is all I want to make us proud parents.......
 

rockits

Member
Messages
9,172
Agreed and applaud all involved in this thread.

I am glad to see the shift in thoughts and decisions not always thinking further education and uni is always best and shouldn't be the default for all.

I have spent most of my life and working life especially making decisions I believe or believed were the best or right. Never did I really think about what others were doing, thinking or cared what the norm or default choice was.

For me current politics is a sham, embarrassing and partly a current display of the lack of this bold stance. I have very little respect for many of our current politicians currently. I challenge many of them to start a small business from zero and survive even grow. Whilst keeping the economy flowing, employing people and paying taxes. I suspect most would fall flat on their faces in a very short time. So why on earth are they there running our bl00dy country!
 
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1,687
I'll never forget the day my mother and I were having a bit of a heart to heart about something. My parents divorce maybe. I was in my 30's I think and had fairly recently got divorced myself.
Out of the blue, she asked me did I think that she'd been a good parent. I was stunned to be asked this and I'm sure my face was a picture, as they say.
She explained that as a newly married military wife in Germany, she was cut off from her family, her friends and the nurses and doctors she used to work with. She didn't speak German and could be alone for days or weeks on end, as my father galivanted all over the country on exercises. The Army was my father's adoptive family so he was happy. My mother was miserable. The stage was set, for a very bad marriage, ending in divorce.
In answering her question, all I could say was that I knew that she did the best that she could in the circumstances.
She did the 'mechanics' of parenthood brilliantly. But I don't recall getting a hug or any affection, until I was in my early 40's.
Looking back, this lack of demonstrable love hugely affected my behaviour. Just as my complete hatred for my father led to choices and behaviours that weren't right for me at all. My self awareness of all of the causes of my behaviours was minimal, until I had counselling which lasted a few years. Hilariously, through it all, I never stopped trying to get my father's approval. It took a long time for me to be able to understand and accept that my parents were themselves products of their own dysfunctional childhoods.
My father lost his father in the Princess Victoria ferry disaster in 1953, so never had a role model and in turn was completely absent from my childhood.
Accepting my life as it was was a huge turning point for me. I don't feel I ever had anything to forgive my parents for. In their own ways, they did the best they knew how and made huge sacrifices to ensure their children were well educated. But, all of that sacrifice was wasted to an extent because what was really important was missing.
I've had to accept that my mother and I will never be close. Although we hug a lot more these days. My father says he can't recall much of my childhood because he was drinking so much. Will I ever be able to say to either of them, what I've written here. No.
But that's okay, because we can all remember and we all know that in the circumstances, all of us, parents and three children, did the best we could.
Ironically for me, just as I achieved all of this enlightenment, acceptance and understanding, my discs started to 'explode', presenting challenges I could never have imagined I'd cope with. Funnily, my parent's dogged determination to be the parents they thought we needed may have instilled in me, the determination to 'keep buggering on' as Winston once said, during the war. Throughout my illness, there have been many times when I weighed things up and badly wanted to end it all. Painkillers and a good malt was my method of choice. But so long as there was a glimmer of hope, that I could get my old life back, I buggered on and make the decision each day, to keep buggering on.
'Ulsterman Abroad' reminds me of my happy expat life and all the countries I loved living in. That's my end goal. And to be a happy human being who leaves this world just a little bit better than he found it.
There is a huge sense of inner peace to be had, by understanding and accepting our past. We can't change it. So, all we can to is understand, learn and accept. What we do with that and the choices we make every day afterwards are up to us and us alone.
Maybe we are destined to become versions of our parents. What kind of version is up to us.
I honour what some of you have shared here, by sharing something of my own life.
My parents are still alive. But I believe that some day, I shall stand by their graves and talk to them in terms that I never could when they were alive. I hope it might be otherwise. But will we all want to have 'those' conversations at times that coincide? I don't expect so. But I'm hopeful.
 
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Wack61

Member
Messages
8,793
I very much look forward to the day when I get to meet you guys.
Living as I do, in Bushmills. Home of the oldest whiskey distillery
in the world.
I obviously won't come empty handed! :D
Mmmm irish whiskey
Quoted so I can come back to it

The only thing I'm uncomfortable with concerning private education is the fact going to the right school will buy you a place at a red brick university it seems regardless of results with circa 80% of students coming from private schools.

The places should go to the most academically gifted not those with the deepest pockets
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,038
Mmmm irish whiskey
Quoted so I can come back to it

The only thing I'm uncomfortable with concerning private education is the fact going to the right school will buy you a place at a red brick university it seems regardless of results with circa 80% of students coming from private schools.

The places should go to the most academically gifted not those with the deepest pockets

There is/was some of that with the schoolin too.
The private school I went to from 13 was like that.
You can afford to pay, your are in!
Unlike Grammer Schools when you have to pass the entrance exam.
Saying that the reason why I went at 13 is that the high school I was going too only offered me half a dozen CSE to take, no O levels.
At the private school I got 12 O levels and 2 A levels, so worked for me, and I would say I'm more practical than academic.
Funny story, or not, the school taught the wrong syllabus for geography, we hadn't studied any of the subjects on the exam paper. I had a good crack at it anyway. Only two kids passed out of the year, out of about 30 I guess. One was me and I got a B! They where desperate for me to do A level Geography, but I didn't.
 
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Wack61

Member
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8,793
There is/was some of that with the schoolin too.
The private school I went to from 13 was like that.
You can afford to pay, your are in!
Unlike Grammer Schools when you have to pass the entrance exam.
Saying that the reason why I went at 13 is that the high school I was going too only offered me half a dozen CSE to take, no O levels.
At the private school I got 12 O levels and 2 A levels, so worked for me, and I would say I'm more practical than academic.
Funny story, or not, the school taught the wrong syllabus for geography, we hadn't studied any of the subjects on the exam paper. I had a good crack at it anyway. Only two kids passed out of the year, out of about 30 I guess. One was me and I got a B! They where desperate for me to do A level Geography, but I didn't.

Really, no O levels , I left school in 1977 and O levels were available at the comprehensive I went to

I did get mugged for my dinner money on my first day there by a kid a foot taller than me and 2 years older
When I was 13 he was still having snide digs and low level bullying , he was 15 by then but I'd made up most of the foot height difference

Walking home with my mates he was behind me kicking my ankle trying to trip me up

Everybody has a breaking point , mine was 2 years and the 3rd trip , I turned round and punched him straight in the face

It took him totally by surprise and he stumbled back into a hedge where I just lost it , 2 years of pent up aggression all came out and I beat the **** out of him while he lay stuck in the hedge , my mates had to drag me off him as he walked off covered in blood

Funnily enough he never bothered me again
 
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1,687
For a start I never liked Bushmills 
C
Sir, if you were here, I would throw down my gauntlet and demand the presence of your second! :mad:
Actually, I went off Bush for several years, when I discovered Scottish malts.
They've expanded their range now, far beyond that of the Bush or Black Bush era.
They produce a reserve which you can only buy in the distillery and at £50 a bottle, is very drinkable. There's a honey malt which also is drinkable. Plus a variety of aged malts of course. When you get into the 25 year ++ malts, you're in a very pleasant place.
I wouldn't claim Bushmills is the best. But, I feel I ought to show it some loyalty, as it's on my doorstep. Plus, I know one of the barmen in the distillery bar adjacent to the shop, who very thoughtfully keeps topping up your glass for a small RNLI donation ;)
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
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9,038
Really, no O levels , I left school in 1977 and O levels were available at the comprehensive I went to

Yes GCSE O levels and CSE's but the high school didn't offer me any O levels to take, just CSE's. The crazy thing was the middle school I was at had three streams in the last year, and I was in the highest stream too.
My Dad just said **** that, and hence I went private from 13-18.
 

dem maser

Moderator
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34,247
My dad was a postman, previously a very skilled lathe turner at Hick Hargreaves in Bolton, I'm connected with people that knew him there and he was the best of best. The go-to-guy. He jacked it in to go on the post. I've no idea why. I'd love to know I guess if he was like me he just had enough. I said to him once I don't want a dead-end job like yours and I bitterly regret it, it must have hurt him but he never let on, that is my disgrace and the guilt prays on me every day..

My mother was a machinist in various clothes making places in Bolton and latterly a cleaner.

Both my parents are dead now, mum 62, dad 68. I cry a lot when I think, they had nothing, just us three kids who probably didn't help, I remember my mum crying at my aunties house saying she couldn't cope with us, and me aged 8 or 10 or something listening and being all British and pretending I didn't hear...

We lived in Bolton, number 2 Peel Street in a house with no hot water, no heating, no bath, no toilet, one bedroom with the five of us in it until 1972, and I don't regret that at all, in my innocence I was happy, as we all were.

Made me a staunch Socialist and also made me want to better myself, I am very clever and intelligent, I know that, but I'm also lazy, I got out, despite my laziness, but I never forget my past and how I was brought up, and how my parents struggled from day one to day end-of-life, and yes, I am ** off by privilege, and how some people always get what they want, but that's my dichotomy, I had to deal with it, it's not anyone else's problem.

I am in tears typing this and I'm not sorry....
Thank you so much.
I read that many times and there are some similarities to my life in there so i get it
 

dem maser

Moderator
Messages
34,247
I grew up in an area where no decent school existed. The best schools where in boroughs 5-6 miles away and the catchment meant i would not get in.
My parents couldn’t afford to move into those areas yet alone stump up 25k a year for private education and having twin sisters 4 years younger than me they’d have to send them too!
I was gutted to not be going to Ashmold Academy as a family friends son was going there and it was a top achieving school but one day my dad came home and told me he got me into that school (20 min train ride away) and to this day i dont know how he did it. I was the only pupil who lived so far away from the school.
I was happy and went onto get a 2.1 at Middlesex in business and marketing management.
My life as you may know has not worked out he way i wanted it to and i cant say that if i went to the “slum” schools my life would be better or worse in the same way that a private education could go either way.
I believe you make it what it is and in my case i let myself and my daughter down by not being able to hold down a job with a career and seem to always go into dead end jobs.
Its not the educational thats to blame, its me.

Education is meaningless if your parents have not taught you about respect and good manners and that no one owes you a living and if you want anything from a skoda to a Maserati you have to graft at it.