My car priorities must change

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
After weeks of discussions and weighting pros/cons, the wife and I decided to pull our kids out of their local public school and put them through private education.
The choice hasn’t been easy as their current school is quite decent and the kids really like it. I never went to private school myself and I find uncomfortable the idea of looking at 98% of the population and say that their reality of sending their kids to public school isn’t good enough for our kids.
However, given that can afford private, the wife doesn’t want to take any chances and I get that 100%.
Given that they are 3 and 5 y/o, we are looking at 15/16 long years of private education school fees... I haven’t really calculated exactly what we will end up paying until they graduate from university, as it will probably be scary (I recon £500k+ by the time they graduate in today’s money), but what feels quite certain is that the wife will never accept to add another italian to the stables...
Given the time I spend researching cars and reading this forum... I feel it’s going to be quite a shock!
I feel a bit depressed tonight; even if giving my kids the best opportunities is what parenthood is all about.
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,512
Kudos to you for being prepared to make the sacrifices necessary for private education.

There is no doubt that “rounded” kids get a huge amount from such a leg up, but it’s not the be all and end all and there are no guarantees, so keep the kids “grounded” and it will give them an advantage in the real world.

I was never in the position to even have to think about it, but on reflection if I could have, I would have.
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
My perception of the crowd at private schools (spoiled kids, snobby parents etc...) are also a definite concern of ours - and it might just be a perception. My wife and I came from simple and well educated families and reallly want our kids to understand the importance of hard work and the sacrifice that need to be made sometimes.
Going private probably delays our early retirement aspiration by a couple of years... which will be all worth it if our kids grow into the human being we want them to be.
Obviously, we as parents play a huge role into that development, regardless of the sort of school we send them to
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Move to a better area?
We effectively pay for better education through increased house prices, living 5 miles from the nearest town.
I went private at 13, my younger sister refused when given the choice, and did just as well at school, both of us going onto further education after A levels etc.
At my private school there was still kids that left with no O levels, it is not guaranteed and when I look back, some of the teachers where pretty **** to be honest!
I remember some of the kids got caught shoplifting just outside of the school grounds, and one parent turned up at school in his Bentley, opened the boot, kid in head first, boot slammed shut on him and drove off!!
Don't forget if your kids go private, generally you become isolated from the local community. Junior and infant schools in a village bring everyone together through the kids, events, local sports, kids friendships going out to play etc.
Fortunately I didn't miss out on all that, going private just before O levels.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
I am sort of inclined to agree with MJ. You work hard and pay your taxes so the state education should be good enough.

Researching a school and moving to catchment and pooling the funds into an asset that your kids will one day get would be my preferred option.

Of course, as they say, the decision is yours and simply just my twopennethworth.
 

granturismo

Junior Member
Messages
192
We faced that choice recently and decided to move rather than commit to a private schooling. Where you live is so important and good state school is just a cherry on the cake. Being able to live near school friends in the same catchment area is great as well and being able to walk kids to school as opposed to driving them is amazing.
 

rivarama

Member
Messages
1,102
All good points, which is why the decision was not a clean cut, and we are still only 80% there.
We actually moved out of central London last year to be in very nice Hertfordshire suburbs to be in a great catchment (as a result most houses around where we are are £1m+) and got our kids into a nice school rated outstanding by ofsted - ranking in top 4% in the country for math and reading.
Despite that, we found that only 3 out of 28 kids who finished their primary went to grammar schools last year. Most parents in our kids class don’t really care about sending their kids to grammar and intend to tutor them. Most moms are stay home moms too. Nothing wrong w that of course, but we felt the lack of apparent ambition for their kids wasn’t aligned to our values.
I agree w MJ’s points about private school and the fact that results aren’t guaranteed. However last year, 40% the kids in the private school we intend to send our kids to, ended up getting a place in grammar school (albeit class being 1/2 the size) and 20% going into top Oxbridge feeder secondary private schools (merchant tailor, eton...). So even if the result aren’t guaranteed, that school has been established for 90years and has had a track record that can’t be argued against.
Wife’s best argument still remain why take any chances - even if state education should be good enough.
The only financial plus side (or rather slight financial offset) is that going private means we won’t need our nanny anymore, as the wrap around care and after school activities of the private school allow us to not need her anymore. That should offset 60% of the school fees.
I was raised by a family that believed that paying taxes and going to state school should be good enough, which is why that decision is so odd to me, while the wife has gone private her whole life and then to a top international university, and now works for a top tech company that wouldn’t even look at applicants that haven’t been Harvard, Stanford, Oxbridge, insead etc...).
Can I win this argument? Face punch!!
 

Ebenezer

Member
Messages
4,445
On the brighter side, there might be a nice choice of electric maserati's to choose from once the financial burden eases!
Eb
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
You are in a totally different area/school system with Grammer Schools etc to ourselves, and it sounds to me the decision has ready been made!
I was also going to say even if the local school is good, which it sounds it is, like ours, you always have the option of private tutors if needed. One to one for an hour a week on a particular subject (Maths or English) if they need that little bit of help is money well spent.
 

Phil H

Member
Messages
4,107
A number of my son's school mates went to uni; he wasn't interested so he went the work/study route, and out of those who did go only two ever used their degrees as intended. I don't doubt the value of university education as long as it's in meaningful subjects and undoubtedly Oxbridge opens doors, but if an individual is bright and diligent enough they can still make it in the world. My son works in financial services (though not sales), and with one exception probably earns significantly more than his degree qualified mates.

PH
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
both our daughters went private, wife researched best schools etc and although they have done very well I can honestly say that it wasn't due to private schooling, they would have done just as well at good state school and with less problems to deal with such as cr4p teachers which meant having further private tutoring at home which a lot of other parents did the same, at the end of the day it's a business and corners are cut and teachers are hired that have questionable experience and/or rejects from other schools, in fact some teachers were very negative with predicted grades for university choices and my girls proved them completely wrong far exceeding the ridiculous predicted grades, I personally think you cant beat a good state school, this is just our experience and i'm sure there are probably good private schools out there
 

Keano

Member
Messages
287
I never went private or even Uni but decided to send mine private. 2 boys from year 4 and a daughter all the way. The boys are now at Uni and doing well but for me the value add was the sport and the general all roundedness that they got from the private system especially in secondary. There will be outliers in each system but as long as they take part fully then they will do well. As for the other parents they have been great and many are also stretching themselves to put kids through school or its grandparents picking up the tab so no issues around fitting in. I don't regret a penny of it even if i could have bought another house with the outlay and while there are good grammars i don't think they can compete as it is just not a level playing field.
This summer the boys are doing pre-season at the local rugby club where they always played and both working including one on a production line packing frozen food - pretty grounded all the same.
 

GeoffCapes

Member
Messages
14,000
At my private school there was still kids that left with no O levels, it is not guaranteed and when I look back, some of the teachers where pretty **** to be honest!
I remember some of the kids got caught shoplifting just outside of the school grounds, and one parent turned up at school in his Bentley, opened the boot, kid in head first, boot slammed shut on him and drove off!!

Sounds like my mate! However, his dad was an S Class man.
My mate ended up having a very successful criminal career, and considering the amount of thievery he got up to only did 2 years.
Ended up with a huge house, a portfolio of rental properties, a Lamborghini (amongst others) wife and 2 kids.
He put his success down to his private education. Arguing that a public school education wouldn't have taught him to quit when he had made a certain amount of cash, which would have meant that the law would have eventually caught up with him and he would done a lot more prison time.

Can't argue with his logic!
 

Doohickey

Velociraptor
Messages
2,496
We sent our son to private as we weren't convinced he would do well in the local school. As it happens, he didn't do particularly well in his GCSEs but he went off and did a vocational course and is now at uni. However, the non academic side of the school was brilliant and he is a really nice lad who can talk to anyone. I don't regret sending him there even if the educational side didn't work out.
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Just make sure it is a good one. My parents paid for a private education from 11-16 and I have always felt as though I have reached some level of success despite going to that school. Not only did I leave with a lazy attitude after having a spoon fed secondary education; I was also pretty much socially inept because it was such a sheltered environment.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
A friends daughter got into oxford from a state school education, most of the kids there came through private education , if they're clever enough save 500k and let them stay with their friends
 

empzb

Member
Messages
229
I went to a grammar school from 8-11. In all honesty it was great for sport and languages, but if you're not that way inclined (I wasnt) then it's a waste. I hated my time there, was a bit bullied (I still was at state schools though) and cant see it setting me up much differently to how a state school was.
What I will say is on the language front I was about 3 years into French when I joined a state school so ended up being rubbish at it, when I could have gone on to be fluid in it.

Has it hampered me later in life. Hard to say. I went to university with some from grammer and in many ways I was still on par or ahesd. Some went higher than me eventually (although I'm 'only' 32) some have done less. At the same time some cracked at the pressure to succeed by their parents and to not disappoint. Although in state alot I know have done very little in life, but then even in grammar that would still be the case because of their upbringing and family situations.

Each to their own and all. Its not a decision to take lightly either financially or emotionally for them. I'd have a Frank conversation with them to make sure they really want to. I was forced in ways because I was bored at my junior school but I was much happier in state that's for sure.

That said I also met my future wife at state school and started a family so I wouldnt have changed a thing which may taint things looking back retrospectively.
 

MrPea

Member
Messages
3,012
I don't have children, but I know my experience in education. I grew up in Northamptonshire and, at the time, the state education there wasn't great at all. My mother was a teacher and a county education advisor to try and get standards up. Consequently, my parents sent my brother and me to prep school. At age 13, we ran out of cash for various reasons and I had to leave the private system, even with a scholarship and probable extra bursaries and ended up at the local comprehensive for GCSE's in a school that served two council estates. For 6th form I changed to another state school but that had a very grammar/private ethos and from there did undergrad and masters in Oxford.

What did I get out of them all?...
Prep school taught me to be self-motivated and to love learning. It also allowed me to discover and start following extra-curricular passions (in my case that was music more than sport, but the latter would have been just as available)
The local comp. was a ****-hole for me being heavily bullied (not physically as I arrived at 6'1" at age 13) but I learnt to love "normal" people. This put me in amazingly good stead in the rest of my life to be able to associate with all walks of life.
6th Form once again allowed me to follow my educational passions in an environment where everyone else also wanted to learn. That's a key environment to be in.
Oxford was an interesting place - I was in a college that's a bit more public-school than others (Oriel) and it was amazing how the public school people struggled culturally with the state school people and vice versa. Also, the acceptance or snobbery was just as strong in both directions (there were great people from all walks of life and some total to55ers from all walks of life).
What has my degree given me? Well, I did actually use it professionally, but actually it taught me to think in new ways. I really really value my education right through, but my parents didn't have a degree between them until my mother was ~60 and my father doesn't even have O-levels to his name. That didn't seem to stop them!

So, there are all sorts of factors to consider, but you definitely know your children best and are bringing them up well!

Good on you for making sacrifices for your children :)
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,119
Wow what a very interesting thread especially for a 70' state educated boy who was only really interested in girls, cars and motorbikes.
The only higher education I did was an apprenticeship which I value highly.
I also have my Guinness World Record certificate from 2012 with Ferrari.
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,757
We had a very similar thread a short while back, so I’ll not repeat all that. However, for 2 kids, the whole way through, it’s much more like £1M, not half that. At our prep school, the fees are approx £6k per term for day, or £9k for boarding. So, 2 kids, as day pupils for 4 years and boarding for 2 (to prepare them for a senior boarding school) you are looking at over £250k, plus trips, uniform, inflation, extras, etc. Then, senior school, boarding at £14k per term - 2 kids, five years, is another £420k, plus trips, uniform, inflation, extras, etc. So, from aged 7 to 18, it’ll be about £700k. (About £63k per year, from post-tax income. Let’s call it £5k per month, every month, for 11 years, from your take-home pay.)

Before that, maybe some private pre-prep fees, and after that, Uni. So, I’d suggest a budget of about £1M is what you need to set aside.

Of course, you can reduce this bill by being a day pupil the whole way through. But for most, this misses the point. And I’d certainly not have wanted to be one of the day pupils at my predominantly boarding school.
 
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