Energy crisis

[CatmanV2]

Be smart and dont have a smart meter

I also rather object that, as an existing customer, they want to take an estimated payment on the 13th and another on the 28th so that 'my account gets a bit of credit'

I might sign up on the 28th (pay day), as it is certainly cheaper than my current tarrif

C

 

[Zep]

I was a smart meter skeptic, but it’s worked out pretty well for me. Better usage information, lower costs overnight, plus the data they scrape out of it helps to decarbonise the grid by allowing better forecasting.

But that’s just me.

 

[CatmanV2]

I was a smart meter skeptic, but it’s worked out pretty well for me. Better usage information, lower costs overnight, plus the data they scrape out of it helps to decarbonise the grid by allowing better forecasting.

But that’s just me.

What irks me is that it's sold as 'will reduce your energy bill' whereas, of course, it will do nothing of the sort.

C

 

[bigbob]

Thanks for that. But, for me...

Tracker requires the submission of monthly meter readings, and may require the future installation of a smart meter.

More than happy to give them monthly readings. Smart meters are a bad solution looking for a problem IMHO

C

I was on a tariff they required smart meter installation. I just ignored the calls and have stayed on old fashioned meter. That new product sounds interesting mind.

 

[Zep]

What irks me is that it's sold as 'will reduce your energy bill' whereas, of course, it will do nothing of the sort.

C

Here is the thing, it probably will for two reasons:

1. Because you can see your usage profile more clearly you and modify your consumption by changing things like light bulbs and how often / when you consume (tariff dependent of course).

2. Through better modelling of consumption the cost of generating the energy we use can be reduced through preventing the need for spot buying for grid balancing over and above the day ahead energy auctions.

 

[DLax69]

Here is the thing, it probably will for two reasons:

1. Because you can see your usage profile more clearly you and modify your consumption by changing things like light bulbs and how often / when you consume (tariff dependent of course).

2. Through better modelling of consumption the cost of generating the energy we use can be reduced through preventing the need for spot buying for grid balancing over and above the day ahead energy auctions.

Interesting.

We had no choice; the utility provider just comes out and changes the meter. On its face, it is unobtrusive. My fear is that the more stuff that gets connected to the cloud, the easier it is for bad actors to manipulate/seize/disrupt. Chris probably knows more about this than anyone, and certainly more about it than me, but I just don't think our security controls/protocols are as advanced as some of our technologies. Yet.

Also why I don't have Alexa or Ring or Nest or...

The single electric provider we have instituted a program where, if you join, they tell you when the rates are going to be higher...so you can plan your peak and off-peak usage. It's not all day, every day...and they generally give at least 48 hours notice. But more than happy to wash clothes at night, for example, to save a few pennies and reduce the grid stress.

Then, on the differences thread, we can talk about nutjob right wingers here shooting up substations to stop drag queen performances...

 

[Phil H]

What irks me is that it's sold as 'will reduce your energy bill' whereas, of course, it will do nothing of the sort.

C

It's like black boxes in cars, in-home 'aids' like Alexa, and cctv on every corner. They've all been designed by aliens to monitor our every move and thought, and if you couple that with the microbes injected via vaccines you quickly realise that it's too late to fight back. Just wait until the new Millenium when the final triggers kick in and all h3ll breaks loose........

 

[Zep]

Nearly all countries are different. Denmark for example gives variable rates a day ahead to consumers as the norm.

Let’s not even go there on the 110v / 220v US voltages.

 

[j s pollo]

At the moment if you have the old meters you have control over the suppliers install smart meters and you give the supplier that control
Look into the hidden side of these meters you may not like what you see.

 

[Wack61]

What irks me is that it's sold as 'will reduce your energy bill' whereas, of course, it will do nothing of the sort.

C

It will if you've got kids, with kids it turns you into a Nazi with one eye on the meter at all times

Who has left zis light on, I VILL FIND OUT

thus saving electricity

 

[midlifecrisis]

It will if you've got kids, with kids it turns you into a Nazi with one eye on the meter at all times

Who has left zis light on, I VILL FIND OUT

thus saving electricity

That's always been the case. 70s dads always said 'Good job we don't live near an airport, as you've left the landing lights on!'

 

[RodTungsten]

At the moment if you have the old meters you have control over the suppliers install smart meters and you give the supplier that control
Look into the hidden side of these meters you may not like what you see.I

I am curious to learn what are the bad things about smart metering. Could someone please list what these are?

 

[CatmanV2]

Here is the thing, it probably will for two reasons:

1. Because you can see your usage profile more clearly you and modify your consumption by changing things like light bulbs and how often / when you consume (tariff dependent of course).

2. Through better modelling of consumption the cost of generating the energy we use can be reduced through preventing the need for spot buying for grid balancing over and above the day ahead energy auctions.

1. Still requires *me* to take action. So the meter does not lower consumption. It may nudge me to lower consumption
2. Interesting, that had not occurred to me. Still not a reason that's given in the pitch though.

Interesting.

We had no choice; the utility provider just comes out and changes the meter. On its face, it is unobtrusive. My fear is that the more stuff that gets connected to the cloud, the easier it is for bad actors to manipulate/seize/disrupt. Chris probably knows more about this than anyone, and certainly more about it than me, but I just don't think our security controls/protocols are as advanced as some of our technologies. Yet.

Also why I don't have Alexa or Ring or Nest or...

The single electric provider we have instituted a program where, if you join, they tell you when the rates are going to be higher...so you can plan your peak and off-peak usage. It's not all day, every day...and they generally give at least 48 hours notice. But more than happy to wash clothes at night, for example, to save a few pennies and reduce the grid stress.

Then, on the differences thread, we can talk about nutjob right wingers here shooting up substations to stop drag queen performances...

I've got *loads* of Alexas. Mostly because I know about this stuff in the same way that @Zep knows about smart meters

But again. The meter *at best* prompts a change in behaviour. Not what it's sold as.

will if you've got kids, with kids it turns you into a Nazi with one eye on the meter at all times

Who has left zis light on, I VILL FIND OUT

thus saving electricity

See above. And so far neither of the cats has managed to work out how to turn the lights on

I am curious to learn what are the bad things about smart metering. Could someone please list what these are?

Nothing particularly. What dicks me off (not withstanding Zep's point) is that smart meters are being sold as a direct benefit to the end user (i.e. will save you energy) which is (IMHO) at best disingenuous. Fitting a smart meter on its own, isn't going to save you money. At best it will prompt you to turn the lights off. (or similar)

C

 

[Wack61]

I am curious to learn what are the bad things about smart metering. Could someone please list what these are?

The way they're pushing them there has to be an ulterior motive, it's not all about the guy coming to reading your meter losing his job

 

[Zep]

The ulterior motive is keeping your TV on.

It used to be “a bit tricky” to keep your electricity at 230v -6% +10% and 50 hz +/-1% (that’s not a typo).

Now, without the benefit of large idling coal fired power stations (like white dog poo, you rarely see power stations spewing steam from the cooling towers these days), wind that stops and starts, pesky clouds covering solar arrays, it’s really very tricky indeed and they need all the help they can get.

But if you mean it is some sort of illuminati plot to deprive you of a tiny spinning disc in a box on the side of your house, then yeah, why not. Probably.

 

[j s pollo]

The ulterior motive is keeping your TV on.

It used to be “a bit tricky” to keep your electricity at 230v (-6% +10%) and 50 hz +/-1% (that’s not a typo).

Now, without the benefit of large idling coal fired power stations (like white dog poo, you rarely see power stations spewing steam from the cooling towers these days), wind that stops and starts, pesky clouds covering solar arrays, it’s really very tricky indeed and they need all the help they can get.

But if you mean it is some sort of illuminati plot to deprive you of a tiny spinning disc in a box on the side of your house, then yeah, why not. Probably.

Simple we must have more nuclear power plants Rolls royce are producing mini reactors which will solve the electric problem British petrolium and their mates they have billions of british taxpayers cash to pay for them
When it comes to gas that is a problem 85% of the population use gas to heat their homes I think they must get busy drilling for more oil and gas to secure our future energy.

 

[DLax69]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, mostly because i've spent enough time working for the government...take that as you will!

That said, we just shot down a freaking Chinese spy balloon just off the coast of the Carolinas. That, and a bunch of hackers in a basement, or some Russians, have the ability to turn it all off if they can get into the networks. Which, again, I totally defer to cybersecurity experts on...but we've seen entire units of local government and others locked out of their own systems/data and held for ransom...

I have a smart meter. Didn't ask for one. Don't think about it 99 percent of the time. But for the sake of discussion here, I do think there's a potential Achilles heel to having the whole world in a cloud.

 

[philw696]

Anyone with a new vehicle or thinking of one I wouldn't just Google Telematic systems.
Certainly wouldn't want to be having a very private conversation in the car
Could bring down Governments now here's hoping

 

[Simon1963]

Anyone with a new vehicle or thinking of one I wouldn't just Google Telematic systems.
Certainly wouldn't want to be having a very private conversation in the car
Could bring down Governments now here's hoping

All will be well again phil Liz Truss is coming back.

 

[rockits]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, mostly because i've spent enough time working for the government...take that as you will!

That said, we just shot down a freaking Chinese spy balloon just off the coast of the Carolinas. That, and a bunch of hackers in a basement, or some Russians, have the ability to turn it all off if they can get into the networks. Which, again, I totally defer to cybersecurity experts on...but we've seen entire units of local government and others locked out of their own systems/data and held for ransom...

I have a smart meter. Didn't ask for one. Don't think about it 99 percent of the time. But for the sake of discussion here, I do think there's a potential Achilles heel to having the whole world in a cloud.

This is my belief too that it is not without great challenges to adopt network based control of so many devices. The amount of network devices now is immense and growing. The ability to keep them secure I'd go as far to say is pretty much impossible realistically.

There are just too many physical and electronic ways to compromise these for a determined and creative thinking hacker. Especially ones who are well resources and state funded. Many tech people are autistic which affords them huge advantages over a neurotypical brain. I don't want to fully embrace and adopt the public infrastructure for this very reason.

It's hard enough making a small network secure or as secure as you can with the funding and resources reality affords. When the network and amount of devices/people involved increases it is increases the challenges also possibilities for compromise. I see huge challenges to balance the negatives of compromises against the positives that some of these systems provide.

The issue for me is when you fully take away any alternative method and fully adopt them there is no alternative option. Not sure that seems prudent to me.

I have no idea but it seems like many of these things like smart meters are the first steps down a long path towards control. When someone has the ability to control a device then in the wrong hands I'm not sure this is good for some.

We know for a fact that many networks and large businesses have been hacked/comprised publicised or often not. When a power company gets hacked.....and it will happen....it allows control to be moved into different hands. Not sure I like that idea. Then again when govts are often the starting hands then maybe they are the wrong hands to start with!