CAR AUCTIONS

Swedish Paul

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1,811
Afraid I disagree. Having been close to the M96/M97 engines for a while the issues are real and not purely down to abuse during warm up. There are examples of careful owners from new having bore score at 7000 miles replaced by Porsche under warranty only to have the second engine go at 30k ish miles of careful warm up. The issue is real and down to a design flaw. Hartech are the experts with the issue and I have 2 mates with new Hartech engines (one a 996 C4S who’s IMS let go and the other a 997 Carrera 3.6 with bore score). For many years I put it down to internet hype but now believe it’s a real issue in a significant proportion of that generation of engine. Bore score is the harder one to avoid as an upgraded IMS is relatively affordable. There are engines running great with 100k miles plus but that doesn’t mean you can ignore the risk. A full Hartech rebuild for borescoring can be done for around 10-12k the upper end results in a bullet proof block. In saying all of that, for me the 996/7, and 987 represents good value if bought at the right price / condition with a war chest to cover the potential rebuild cost as they are relatively cheap to run otherwise. I also believe the the smaller boxster/cayman 3.2, 3.4 and 2.7 are less commonly known for bore scoring than the 3.6 and 3.8 lumps. Autos are also higher risk apparently due to lugging the engine under high load at low revs for eco reasons in the gearbox programming.

BTW I have a 997.2 GTS manual which is a completely different engine (9A1 I believe) does not seem to suffer these issues and has no IMS as such
That’s interesting to hear, because my next car will be a 911 or cayman. I have considered that post 2009 is a better bet. I am researching between the 4.0 or the 3.0 turbo. I’d be interested to know what you think.
 

c4sman

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1,264
That’s interesting to hear, because my next car will be a 911 or cayman. I have considered that post 2009 is a better bet. I am researching between the 4.0 or the 3.0 turbo. I’d be interested to know what you think.
Turbo is a completely different block (Mezger). I’ve owned 2 and they are epic! Totally bulletin proof and suffers none of the M96/7 issues. 4.0 is relatively new and again is a development of the 9A1 engine and again suffers none of the bore score or IMS issues.
 

Swedish Paul

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1,811
Turbo is a completely different block (Mezger). I’ve owned 2 and they are epic! Totally bulletin proof and suffers none of the M96/7 issues. 4.0 is relatively new and again is a development of the 9A1 engine and again suffers none of the bore score or IMS issues.
Sorry to be a pain, but I hear the turbo/gt3 engines of the 996/997. I meant the 3.0 turbos that are now the std for 992s.
 

c4sman

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1,264
Sorry to be a pain, but I hear the turbo/gt3 engines of the 996/997. I meant the 3.0 turbos that are now the std for 992s.
Ah got it. The 991.2 and 992 turbo carrera engines are a development of the 9A1 and there are no reported issues with them. That are turbos with a small t, not The Turbo!
 

Ewan

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6,834
No issues with the 991. But I’d not have one over my 997.2. The last of the 997 cars have a better manual box, better steering and smaller footprint. Though a 996 with a rebuilt engine is a great car for not a lot of cash.
996 - £20k
997.2 - £40k
991 - £50k
All good cars. Pay your money, take your choice.
 

Nayf

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2,754
That does look nice, condition and colour combination look stunning only downside auto box and a few bits of TLC but as a summer cruiser you could live with that.
I’ve been watching that for a while. Wonder what the reserve is, £15k?
 

Guy

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2,186
I’ve been watching that for a while. Wonder what the reserve is, £15k?
2100 with a day to go....
I've noticed considerably softer bidding of late at the likes of Bonhams such as 993s in the 30s. Maybe some bargains coming up?
 

Nayf

Member
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2,754
2100 with a day to go....
I've noticed considerably softer bidding of late at the likes of Bonhams such as 993s in the 30s. Maybe some bargains coming up?
Market is depressed – enjoy/invest types are preferring to take advantage of high savings rates. HSBC (I think) pointed out that the car market (generally) has appreciated by just 1 per cent, whereas other asset classes are 5-6, savings rate is about the same.

I don't think the cost of living crisis is having that much of an effect (who knows during/after winter) but Monterey, the barometer for the market, was quieter this year. Lots of cars on the market, both at traditional physical houses and online sales is also providing too much choice.

Other point is that the cost of finance is quite high at the moment, so that's holding people back.

Good time to buy if you have cash and bought-and-paid-for storage space, as the current state of affairs is not a long term trend, I feel. Indeed the BoE said as much yesterday
 

3hcp

Member
Messages
259
I had a hardtop version in my youth with a manual transmission which to be fair was fairly vague so an automatic cruiser for sunny days would make sense. I would imagine, looking at the maintenance history it’s not a forced sale so would have a sizeable reserve as previously suggested. Certainly one of the nicer ones around.
 

williamsmix

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Messages
581
Market is depressed – enjoy/invest types are preferring to take advantage of high savings rates. HSBC (I think) pointed out that the car market (generally) has appreciated by just 1 per cent, whereas other asset classes are 5-6, savings rate is about the same.

I don't think the cost of living crisis is having that much of an effect (who knows during/after winter) but Monterey, the barometer for the market, was quieter this year. Lots of cars on the market, both at traditional physical houses and online sales is also providing too much choice.

Other point is that the cost of finance is quite high at the moment, so that's holding people back.

Good time to buy if you have cash and bought-and-paid-for storage space, as the current state of affairs is not a long term trend, I feel. Indeed the BoE said as much yesterday
I think the car market is likely to soften further into next year as the rate rises haven’t really hit everyone with a mortgage in the pocket just yet. You’ll never get the Government and BoE to admit that they have some responsibility for raising inflation with all the QE they did. And now they’ve decided to Tighten in a high base rate environment, someone’s going to have to pick up the tab! I can’t see the tax burden decreasing and, if Labour get in - which is looking likely - that’ll only compound the problem further. Add to that Net Zero aspirations and the risk of spreading “ULEZ” schemes and - agree with it or not - our car culture is changing … May not be a good time to plan on investing in anything(?)
 
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Guy

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2,186
@williamsmix what will it be like with the current lot running the Country with the state it's now in ?
Personally I don't hold much faith with any off them anymore and really worry for the future generations coming along.
Phil, it depresses me every time I read about it or think about it! We have been lucky to live in a relatively golden age where we have not had to endure full scale war, conscription or rationing. My great grandfather served in the British Army for 55 years (we kept going to war as he was about to retire!) and my grandfather was killed in Singapore at 32 years of age. My father just made the last boat out of Singapore and then endured a lot of hardship and conscription post war and thankfully enjoyed a full life including 28 years retired. Unfortunately, I am not convinced we have made the best of our times of peace and politically I think we are at a nadir globally. It is hard to look up to any politicians anywhere. As Churchill rightly pointed out 'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other options'. I am now of the view that it is best not to fret but better to get out there and live life to the full whilst we still can. Future generations will find a way, they always have.
Off for some escapism at the Goodwood Revival tomorrow and I am taking the GranSport for a dash over the Hampshire and Sussex Downs. Perfect medicine!
 

Koz

Member
Messages
495
Turbo is a completely different block (Mezger). I’ve owned 2 and they are epic! Totally bulletin proof and suffers none of the M96/7 issues. 4.0 is relatively new and again is a development of the 9A1 engine and again suffers none of the bore score or IMS issues.
Didn’t think the 997 Gen2 Turbo was a Mezger engine only thought 997 Gen1 and Gen1.5 were Mezger engines. The rare one is the 997 Gen1.5 which combines the Mezger engine with the Gen2 info entertainment system best one to get in my opinion. Oh and for the record 991’s also suffer bore score apparently, as a Porsche Club GB member from our region had it on his.
 
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Ewan

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6,834
In theory any car can suffer from bore score. But the 991 is not particularly known for it and it wouldn't be something I'd be in the slightest bit worried about. (Of the 911 family, it's the 996 and gen 1 997 cars that are more prone to this.)
 
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