Brexit Deal

[Wattie]

Nah, all he’s working on is extracting more money out of people with false hope and undeliverable promises. Minimalist manifesto, I think I would concur its a Short sighted and limited vision from yet another failed businessman who renages on his responsibilities and who doesn’t pay his taxes or declares his funding. Yep, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

He’s in very good company trying to get into Parliament then!

 

[2b1ask1]

Tony Blair’s left wing principles have netted him a worth of over £60 million... proves crime does pay particularly in politics!!!

 

[MaserCoupe]

nobend farage doesn't give a **** about the UK, his only interest is in making a sh1t load of money for himself from his Russian friends and then just disappearing once this shitstorm is over, look at UKIP he fooked off after the referendum vowing never to return because of all the abuse his family was getting, didn't have a fooking clue how to actually implement brexit, paraded by trump as his muppet and here he is again on the scene, I think he enjoys all this media attention and not to mention the money he's accumulating

So true and spot on!

 

[GeoffCapes]

I've come to realise that the only way that the UK will leave the EU currently is by having a no-deal Brexit.

And what's the likelihood of that? Zero?

Perhaps a better way of leaving the EU would be to make the changes we want from the inside, arranging our exit deals and leaving in 3-5 years once all the deals are done.
Leaving in one fail swoop isn't going to work (as we can see).

Leaving bit by bit seems a much more logical way of doing things.

 

[allandwf]

Arranging our exit deals and leaving in 3-5 years once all the deals are done.

This is a problem, how and who would do that? Three years down the line and it just seems chaos with everyone trying to look after their own agendas. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[MaserCoupe]

I've come to realise that the only way that the UK will leave the EU currently is by having a no-deal Brexit.

And what's the likelihood of that? Zero?

Perhaps a better way of leaving the EU would be to make the changes we want from the inside, arranging our exit deals and leaving in 3-5 years once all the deals are done.
Leaving in one fail swoop isn't going to work (as we can see).

Leaving bit by bit seems a much more logical way of doing things.

Yep exactemondo this. Agree with that sentiment. Trying to rebuild a trading relationship from the ashes of a hard exit/ no deal Brexit or whatever people want to call it is folly and for the birds. The mistakes made by the proponents of leave, By weaponising immigration, then in telling the country that this will be the easiest deal in history and that the EU would cave in, The German car industry wouldn’t countenance it, we buy too much Prosecco for them to dictate etc, they’ll do what we want, has led us nowhere.

When our Redlines met the good Friday agreement and the Indivisibility of the four freedoms, boom it then became an exercise in managing the public’s expectations.

 

[GeoffCapes]

This is a problem, how and who would do that? Three years down the line and it just seems chaos with everyone trying to look after their own agendas. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Start again. Whilst inside the EU.
Tell them that from 1st January 2020 our fishing grounds are ours, and no-one else's. In return we won't fish in any EU waters. Box 1 ticked.
Tell them that forever, there will be no hard border best Eire and NI. No further discussion required. Box 2 ticked.
Tell them that we will follow their trade agreements (if they allow us) in return we will replicate. Obviously we retain a veto as there will always be exceptions.
If they are not happy with that, then we negotiate the main ones individually. Starting with the ones which are of most interest to the EU, this way if we make concessions then we have a bigger bargaining chip for the ones we want. Box 3 ticked.
So on and so forth. Rather than do it all at once. Do it bit by bit.

Then in 2024, we can say, we've ticked all the toughest boxes, and we'll leave on 1st April. Have a nice day. Most deals are done.

Makes much more sense. And we hold all the cards.

 

[Wattie]

Yep exactemondo this. Agree with that sentiment. Trying to rebuild a trading relationship from the ashes of a hard exit/ no deal Brexit or whatever people want to call it is folly and for the birds. The mistakes made by the proponents of leave, By weaponising immigration, then in telling the country that this will be the easiest deal in history and that the EU would cave in, The German car industry wouldn’t countenance it, we buy too much Prosecco for them to dictate etc, they’ll do what we want, has led us nowhere.

When our Redlines met the good Friday agreement and the Indivisibility of the four freedoms, boom it then became an exercise in managing the public’s expectations.

All this would be fine if there was a semblance of truth that had been our negotiating strategy. It wasn’t.
Our “remainer” PM capitulated....against all the advice.

The Irish border is also a red herring.
Eu has said No hard border under no deal.

BUT May negotiated a “Backstop” under the withdrawal agreement:

WTF?

What a total stitch up:

There days are numbered and so are the UK’s in the Eu.

 

[MaserCoupe]

All this would be fine if there was a semblance of truth that had been our negotiating strategy. It wasn’t.
Our “remainer” PM capitulated....against all the advice.

The Irish border is also a red herring.
Eu has said No hard border under no deal.

BUT May negotiated a Hard border under the withdrawal agreement:

WTF?

What a total stitch up:

Their days are numbered and so are the UK’s in the Eu.

Except for the fact that the uncompromising Hardliners were seeking perfection and that unfortunately got in the way of the good of the country. Yep they stitched themselves up with Unrealistic, undeliverable promises to begin with.

 

[lifes2short]

Wattie, your bird is looking fit, time to change to a different pose on the avatar now, anything with your bird and a car would be good

 

[Wattie]

Start again. Whilst inside the EU.
Tell them that from 1st January 2020 our fishing grounds are ours, and no-one else's. In return we won't fish in any EU waters. Box 1 ticked.
Tell them that forever, there will be no hard border best Eire and NI. No further discussion required. Box 2 ticked.
Tell them that we will follow their trade agreements (if they allow us) in return we will replicate. Obviously we retain a veto as there will always be exceptions.
If they are not happy with that, then we negotiate the main ones individually. Starting with the ones which are of most interest to the EU, this way if we make concessions then we have a bigger bargaining chip for the ones we want. Box 3 ticked.
So on and so forth. Rather than do it all at once. Do it bit by bit.

Then in 2024, we can say, we've ticked all the toughest boxes, and we'll leave on 1st April. Have a nice day. Most deals are done.

Makes much more sense. And we hold all the cards.

Ummm, these are all things that should have been done by 29th March- except any sort of custom union and if they didn’t like it.
Byeee!!
If we make concessions- sounds like May II.

 

[Wattie]

Except for the fact that the uncompromising Hardliners were seeking perfection and that unfortunately got in the way of the good of the country. Yep they stitched themselves up with Unrealistic, undeliverable promises to begin with.

Nope what got in the way was an incompetent remainer PM who saw Brexit as a problem not an opportunity.

 

[Wattie]

Your wish

Wattie, your bird is looking fit, time to change to a different pose on the avatar now, anything with your bird and a car would be good

Your wish

 

[GeoffCapes]

Ummm, these are all things that should have been done by 29th March- except any sort of custom union and if they didn’t like it.
Byeee!!
If we make concessions- sounds like May II.

They should have, but they weren't. Pointless going over what has happened as it doesn't make a jot of difference.

In negotiations you have to make concessions. A bit of give and take goes a long way. That doesn't mean you change your stance on something.
You can't flatly refuse and say "I want everything my way" as you will just not get it. And the country will be far worse off for it. This is why a No Deal Brexit has been ruled out.
Everyone knows we will be the loser.

If we negotiate from a position of strength, give a little take a little, we pretty much get what we want.

Theresa Mays problem was that she was trying to find an answer to everything in one go. Which is simply impossible.

 

[lifes2short]

Your wish


Your wish
View attachment 57217

, can we have one a day

 

[MaserCoupe]

They should have, but they weren't. Pointless going over what has happened as it doesn't make a jot of difference.

In negotiations you have to make concessions. A bit of give and take goes a long way. That doesn't mean you change your stance on something.
You can't flatly refuse and say "I want everything my way" as you will just not get it. And the country will be far worse off for it. This is why a No Deal Brexit has been ruled out.
Everyone knows we will be the loser.

If we negotiate from a position of strength, give a little take a little, we pretty much get what we want.

Theresa Mays problem was that she was trying to find an answer to everything in one go. Which is simply impossible.

After 3years It may well be that they’ll cut their losses seeing what’s on the horizon on our side as the narrative has been set and simply say see ya, thanks for playing but the 27 other countries really need to move on.

 

[Wanderer]

Despite 206 pages of discussion here and much more on FB and face to face, I've still not heard one good reason for leaving the EU.

Control of our borders? We have that now.

Sovereignty? We still have that now.

Own trade agreements? Ok, but outside the EU they'll be substantially worse for sure.

Anyone care to correct me with one tangible point that will make the whole thing worth it?

 

[Zep]

Despite 206 pages of discussion here and much more on FB and face to face, I've still not heard one good reason for leaving the EU.

Control of our borders? We have that now.

Sovereignty? We still have that now.

Own trade agreements? Ok, but outside the EU they'll be substantially worse for sure.

Anyone care to correct me with one tangible point that will make the whole thing worth it?

Does “because then we can then talk about something else” count?

 

[Zep]

As Geoff says, we need to break this back down to the various issues, decide which we are willing to give a bit on and then try to work from their.

For a bit of fun, let’s take each of the issues in turn and list the pros and cons.

BUT

- If you would prefer to remain in the EU you can only list the downsides of the issue

- If you want to leave the EU you can only list the benefits to the U.K. on that issue.

This will only work as a useful exercise if we take it seriously. So.

Free Movement

To me the downsides to the UK of this are:

To some degree there may be a reduction in jobs available to U.K. residents.

In areas where non-local people work in seasonal business (fruit / veg picking / sports direct etc) there has been an increased demand for services such as the NHS which impacts residents.

I’m not going to count shady people coming into the country because we are not in schengen so we have border controls and so that, to me is an enforcement issue.

Can anyone else on the remain side think of any more?

Who from the Leave side wants to list the benefits?

 

[zagatoes30]

Farage is an ar5e of the highest order

My only statement on this subject unless we get more titties