Brexit Deal

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1,021
The thing to think about here is this.

Who wins if we have a 'Hard Brexit' - No one.
Who wins if we have a no deal Brexit (is this the same as a Hard Brexit) - No one.
Who wins if we stay in the EU - The financial institutions, trade organisations, the economy etc etc etc.
Who loses if we stay in the EU - The fisherman, errrrrr, help me out here, and I want industries organisations here not Clive the National Front member down the road.
Who wins if we make a deal that everyone is reasonably happy with - everyone. Kinda.


This has got to be the bottom line surely. If we can't make a deal, and it looks unlikely, surely the best thing to do is to change things from the inside?
As you will have no chance and a whole lot of financial pain from trying to do the same from the outside.
The bottom line is that we shouldn’t be discussing

Who wins if we stay in the EU or
Who loses if we stay in the EU

We voted to leave the EU didn’t we and politicians vowed to implement that.

The Factual answer to your question is each and every one of the 17+ million who voted and won the referendum and who believed in the vision of a new tomorrow.
 
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1,235

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
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8,357
The bottom line is that we shouldn’t be discussing

Who wins if we stay in the EU or
Who loses if we stay in the EU

We voted to leave the EU didn’t we and politicians vowed to implement that.

The Factual answer to your question is each and every one of the 17+ million who voted and won the referendum and who believed in the vision of a new tomorrow.

I think the whole crux of the Brexit debate should completely be whether we win or lose by staying or leaving. This is what was totally missed in the weeks leading to the referendum. We were fed a pack of lies on both sides.

Dismissing it now makes the whole debacle not about whether we would be better off, it turns it into whether we want to be part of the EU regardless of the consequences either way. And that is just madness.
Akin to cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Add to the fact that the public were made aware of the fact that the referendum wasn't legally binding. One of the few facts that was mentioned prior to the vote.
 
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Ok so let’s just say that Mays deal is the best......with a straight face.

It ties us to the E.U., without a voice, subject to the European court rulings etc , no veto or any say in things for years, possibly decades and we’re still gonna pay up 37 000 000 000 + for the privilege.

There will be backstop we can’t get out of etc....but we’ll pretend NI is in the Uk.

We may as well just join the Euro and be a full 100% part if it.

How do you feel about that remainers?
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
28,015
But, a bit like a divorce, it is almost impossible to get an agreement that both parties are happy with - the parties need to try to find a compromise that both can live with. And, as in most divorces, particularly involving children, there will always be some uncertainties, eg shared care, that will need to evolve as time goes by. The parties need to accept that at the outset and show at least some degree of trust that they will be play fair when riding out the inevitable bumps in the road. And then there is the ultimate role of the courts in arbitrating where the parties can’t agree.

These rules are mostly true of every negotiation I have ever been involved with. So why do so many people think that any Brexit agreement would be any different, apart from in a no deal scenario.
Maybe but I feel the UK is the man and Europe the women...we get ******!
 
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Cost of EU membership is buttons compared to what we get out of it. Let's face it for most people the reason to leave was immigration. Control of our borders. Well we'd not have that anyway, with the CTA and an open border anyway with the EU via the Irish Sea. Added to that, every single Government project I've worked on, and it's quite a few, has been an utter balls up so whatever replaces eBorders (think that was canned anyway) will be a disaster.

UKBA are opening to the door to more T2 visas so that's be honest that's less Poles, more brown people which is certain to rile those on the UKIP side of Brexit.

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The Factual answer to your question is each and every one of the 17+ million who voted and won the referendum and who believed in the vision of a new tomorrow.
Wattie, I can feel your righteous anger but the tragic fact is you were lied to. You were told:-
  • it would be the easiest deal in history.
  • That the UK holds all the cards.
  • That BMW and Italian Prosecco producers would bend the EU to the UK's will.
  • That £350m per week would be given to the NHS.
  • Take back control.
  • Stop 74 million Turks arriving.
  • EU 27 in UK, and UK in EU would be guaranteed their rights.

The truth is, and always was even before June '16, it can't be an easy deal:-
  • CETA took seven years to negotiate, the UK-EU deal will take longer because we are more intertwined and there is more to discuss.
  • The leaving partner doesn't hold all the cards - think about it, who is stronger the person resigning his gym membership or the gym? Will the gym change its rules for the leaver?
  • BMW know which side their bread is buttered on. The single market is the biggest gift to manufacturing since just-in-time was invented. There is no way they will sacrifice this for a slight dip in UK sales. Any increased tariffs will be born by UK customers, not BMW. The only downside to them is they might sell fewer cars.
  • Brexit is already costing £500m a week. There was never going to be extra for the NHS.
  • If the UK leaves under any scenario it gives away control. Even in the wet dream of the ERG, leaving with no-deal, still doesn't get away from the fact that the biggest market on our doorstep is the EU; and the customer is always right.
  • Turkey applied to join 30 years ago. They haven't a hope of fulfilling the entry criteria. While the UK remains a member it has the veto to stop them joining.
  • Citizens' rights have been a shameful episode. Citizens of nowhere. This is building up to be another Windrush scandal on an epic proportion. The 1.4 million UK citizens living in Europe have been shafted. The EU offered to give them freedom of movement and HMG declined saying 'we see nothing in that for us'. Shafted. This shafting of our own citizens alone is reason enough to stop this farce.
Galileo is an example in microcosm. The UK was sharing costs with 28 countries, paying 1/28th of the costs. Now it looks like we'll have to pay 28/28ths of the cost to stand still. This is replicated across every industry, every trade body, every regularity regime. The new red tape, new bureaucracy and new costs - madness.
 
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I'm on O2 s may have missed if we've finally got rid of that bunch of dik$ that Guy Fawkes missed and finally got some real negotiators from the EU to work it out for us
 
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Not sexy IMHO. I think sexy is different to different people. Give me Sharleen Spiteri thanks. You can have a chat, have a good drink, listen to some music and have some fun. Bimbos in this video are a bit seemingly one dimensional for me.