zagatoes30
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I once got evicted from M&S after suggesting to the lady offering to measure Mrs Z for a bra, that there are only 4 sizes - a mouthful, a handful, two handfuls and a waste
Brexit Deal
- Thread starter GeoffCapes
- Start date
Phil the Brit
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So, What about Brexit................
lifes2short
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on ya marks, get set...……………………...
lifes2short
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I've heard it all nowhttps://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...over-because-i-voted-for-brexit-a4012066.html
Wattie
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Ok, so to summarise the state of play.
Mays deal is hated by Brexiteers because it isn’t Brexit.
Mays deal is preferred by remainers as it isn’t Brexit but are they REALLY comfortable in being Europe’s bitches with no say......indefinitely.
Even if I was a remainer, I wouldn’t like that....we may as well join the Euro.
No-ones entirely happy.
The situation has prompted a new referendum call.....which is fine.
Remainers suggest the Q should be
Leave now (you know the price and the doomsday scenario and we’ll be lucky to survive and interest rates will go up 300% and we’ll have no food or medicines or water blah blah blah and you’ll all have to hand in your Maseratis or live in them cos you won’t be able to afford your mortgages)
Or Remain.
Brexiteers would suggest the Q should be:
Mays deal
Or “no deal”
(As the Uk voted to leave and to honour that vote)
And we take control and democracy is honoured.
What a mess.
Article 50 didn’t need to be invoked until there was a plan.
The tories invoked it without one.
Further, everyone knows Europe doesn’t negotiate “leave deals” with anyone so the Uk should have said and publicly announced from day 1 it was leaving....without a deal in all probability.
That would have given businesses 700+ days to prepare.
At the same time the Uk should have said we ain’t paying you but we will do if you approach us with a suitable proposal during this period for a deal that we agree to.
End of.
Europe rather than the Uk would be looking at 100 days for a solution. Most of Europe is bust and if you think they can stomach a no deal you’re wrong.
Oh and that would mean the Uk is only a 100 or so days away from signing all those GOODS and trade deals May said she’d been talking about at the G20..........not an ind finite period of time under her deal.
Conspiracy theorists may say that sabotage Brexit was the plan all along. Raab said today that there were options......no backstop....ignored.
Makes you wonder.
Mays deal is hated by Brexiteers because it isn’t Brexit.
Mays deal is preferred by remainers as it isn’t Brexit but are they REALLY comfortable in being Europe’s bitches with no say......indefinitely.
Even if I was a remainer, I wouldn’t like that....we may as well join the Euro.
No-ones entirely happy.
The situation has prompted a new referendum call.....which is fine.
Remainers suggest the Q should be
Leave now (you know the price and the doomsday scenario and we’ll be lucky to survive and interest rates will go up 300% and we’ll have no food or medicines or water blah blah blah and you’ll all have to hand in your Maseratis or live in them cos you won’t be able to afford your mortgages)
Or Remain.
Brexiteers would suggest the Q should be:
Mays deal
Or “no deal”
(As the Uk voted to leave and to honour that vote)
And we take control and democracy is honoured.
What a mess.
Article 50 didn’t need to be invoked until there was a plan.
The tories invoked it without one.
Further, everyone knows Europe doesn’t negotiate “leave deals” with anyone so the Uk should have said and publicly announced from day 1 it was leaving....without a deal in all probability.
That would have given businesses 700+ days to prepare.
At the same time the Uk should have said we ain’t paying you but we will do if you approach us with a suitable proposal during this period for a deal that we agree to.
End of.
Europe rather than the Uk would be looking at 100 days for a solution. Most of Europe is bust and if you think they can stomach a no deal you’re wrong.
Oh and that would mean the Uk is only a 100 or so days away from signing all those GOODS and trade deals May said she’d been talking about at the G20..........not an ind finite period of time under her deal.
Conspiracy theorists may say that sabotage Brexit was the plan all along. Raab said today that there were options......no backstop....ignored.
Makes you wonder.
Last edited:
Wattie
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She wasn’t there to appease everyone.
She was there to plan to leave as she and her party had honoured they would do.,indeed she said.
“No deal is better than a bad deal”
Now she’s saying...... her deal or Corbyn.
Translation. Europe or labour.
Well **** me we’ll take labour rather than those ******* in the European parliment.
The tories are finished.
Nibby
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The Tories and Labour have been finished quite often over my long life.
Im a remainer...but I have some sympathy for the view of crashing out. Because May's so-called deal is an emasculation of the UK's position, materially and politically...
Crashing out is fecking stupid but May's deal is a disaster. I cant see any way forward under any proposed Plan B that isnt actually even worse than May's hatchet job...
Remaining would be nice...But would it. An emboldened EU will entrench further the systemic issues I feel they have. Not all the arguments for leaving were about leaving, in hindsight, but about those things that are seriously wrong with the EU. A referendum to leave the E.U. wasnt the way to have that debate...Accepting a deal ( or never ending stale-mate) would start a doubling down by EU powers, which is populist in essence..And I suspect we will ever be the "bad boy" of Europe despite the shorter term benfits the EU gain, and find ourselves less and less "relevant" in our participation ( aka - materially and politically weakened)
Of course, Id love to be wrong about that...but it all leads me to say, crashing out, whilst rash and wrecklessly stupid, it is the only way to stand up for ourselves after we have been landed in this buggers muddle...
Im not sure i can get behind another binary vote , despite the, I hope, obvious elucidation of some of the most potent and awkward problems that Leaving entails.....Its too simple. We're too divided. We are over a barrel in terms of the sands running out...!
I believe the UK has sh1t the bed...Crashing out is the only way to hold the EU to account for both our sins, and our power ?
Crashing out is fecking stupid but May's deal is a disaster. I cant see any way forward under any proposed Plan B that isnt actually even worse than May's hatchet job...
Remaining would be nice...But would it. An emboldened EU will entrench further the systemic issues I feel they have. Not all the arguments for leaving were about leaving, in hindsight, but about those things that are seriously wrong with the EU. A referendum to leave the E.U. wasnt the way to have that debate...Accepting a deal ( or never ending stale-mate) would start a doubling down by EU powers, which is populist in essence..And I suspect we will ever be the "bad boy" of Europe despite the shorter term benfits the EU gain, and find ourselves less and less "relevant" in our participation ( aka - materially and politically weakened)
Of course, Id love to be wrong about that...but it all leads me to say, crashing out, whilst rash and wrecklessly stupid, it is the only way to stand up for ourselves after we have been landed in this buggers muddle...
Im not sure i can get behind another binary vote , despite the, I hope, obvious elucidation of some of the most potent and awkward problems that Leaving entails.....Its too simple. We're too divided. We are over a barrel in terms of the sands running out...!
I believe the UK has sh1t the bed...Crashing out is the only way to hold the EU to account for both our sins, and our power ?
Rwc13
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Have you ever tried negotiating a deal when everybody else on your side of the house keeps telling the other side where your go and no go areas are? I’m not sure that May/the Government are completely or even significantly to blame for the deal that is on the table. If everybody else had stopped playing games, like trying to change the UK’s decision, or force a general election, May and the Government might well have had a better chance to negotiate a better deal, more like what Wattie extols. IMO, the blame does not lie entirely at the Government’s door for the mess we are in.
Interesting...cos as I see it...Cameron should have asked
" do you want your cake and eat it?"
OR
"do you want an impractical, expensive amputation of a limb, anY limb in excahange for my hubris?"
Last I looked...he was the most recently voted for head of govt in the UK..
Id agree you cant turn back time..its not about blame ( actually, I dont believe that but I sense we havent time at this juncture...)
We need to get it done ( whatever that means)
" do you want your cake and eat it?"
OR
"do you want an impractical, expensive amputation of a limb, anY limb in excahange for my hubris?"
Last I looked...he was the most recently voted for head of govt in the UK..
Id agree you cant turn back time..its not about blame ( actually, I dont believe that but I sense we havent time at this juncture...)
We need to get it done ( whatever that means)
Wattie
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When one side (Uk) rules out a “no deal” you’re effectively negotiating the other sides point on their behalf...and reducing your options.
It’s like the David Brent in sales technique.
Tragic
Rwc13
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Out of interest, suppose we approve May’s deal, seek to negotiate the final terms of the ongoing trade deal over the next 12 months or so, and then find that the EU behaves unreasonably. What’s to stop us unilaterally then leaving without a deal on a timescale of our choosing, eg give three months notice to give businesses a fighting chance to get ready? My understanding is that the deal provides for this if we consider that the EU stops negotiating in good faith. I know that “good faith” is open to interpretation, but who would interpret this in such circumstances. Not the ECJ surely, because they would clearly be biased and could not be allowed to decide such a matter. Is there a global legal institution that could be the final arbiter on this. Perhaps this is identified in the deal?