Brexit Deal

[conaero]

Just to underline...we are all friends here.

The mods have let this thread run but in the last 24hrs it’s starting to turn dark.

Keep it civil, respect each others views and it will continue.

Carry on....

 

[namaste]

I'm stupid enough to have a political opinion, and smart enough not to voice it in public

 

[CatmanV2]

I'm stupid enough to have a political opinion, and smart enough not to voice it in public

This

C

 

[CatmanV2]

Mankind is tribal

That's pretty much it. No idea why anyone thinks we'll get consensus from another referendum when there's not even consensus in the leave or remain camps....

C

 

[midlifecrisis]

How much of the current state of politics is due to the rise of social media and the 'interference' by propagandists/protagonists? Especially by foreign state secret services. Both sides must admit that the political campaigns have been affected of late, not just the European Referendum, but the last US election, many European elections etc with the rise of the far right.

We all know that the far right parties in the UK posted 'innocent' memes of abused animals to garner their attraction to a wider attraction then turning up their hateful rhetoric through FMG to Halal food and then further, conditioning the wider audience to more hateful ideas that they would not normally think. My nephew said to me that because I didn't 'like' a particular far right party, I must therefore want all women to suffer FMG or all my food to be Halal. He was brainwashed!

Politicians of today have been affected by this by their language.(I'm leaving Trump out of this argument as her's not a true politician, just a megalomaniac) Boris Johnson speaking about 'letterboxes' to describe Muslim women is abhorrent. He would not have said this 10 years ago, but they have stooped so low to garner support from where ever they can get it from. This I find disturbing and in all honesty

 

[lifes2short]

I'm stupid enough to have a political opinion, and smart enough not to voice it in public

in politics stupidity is not a handicap

 

[Wattie]

There’s some really interesting comment in these pages and I think we’re at an inflection point which will shape the future political landscape in the UK- for many many years.

As a country the Uk is faced with;

A) a vote being overturned or revoked and not being implemented. (For whatever reason)
B) a vote being implemented with renewed vigour, belief and optimism, ( seems unlikely)

It’s going to be an interesting few weeks. One side is going to feel betrayed.
Cheers Wattie

 

[Oneball]

I think it won’t get through Parliament on 11th and all that is going on now, is as a consequence, irrelevant. Only after 11th will we have some idea where we are heading. The real problem I see at the moment is that May thinks it will pass and I don’t believe she has any idea what to do when it doesn’t.

 

[Wattie]

This was the question we were all asked to vote on.

Do you see “leave blah blah blah “
*subject to the Uk being able to negotiate this, that or another deal with those that will never let anyone leave being in place” on the ballot paper

 

[Phil H]

I am a remainer, but would accept a leave vote if it was based on an honest understanding of what leaving meant, rather than a bunch of rhetoric and lots of old people hankering after the glory days of when Britain ruled the waves!

Or perhaps one might say

“I am a Leaver, but would accept a Remain vote if it was based on an honest understanding of what remaining meant, rather than ignoring the dignity and sage advice of mature folk who remember the United Kingdom as a proud sovereign nation which seemed to do quite well before the EU was invented”.

PH

 

[JonW]

Whatever way any of us vote I think we can all agree that this is an utter shambles, too many different agendas going on.

Completely agree with this... my sense is future generations on all sides of this issue will feel they were betrayed and let down by people who really ought to have known better.

I also really struggle with the idea that we must at all costs respect the “will of the people”...

I’m presuming most people now accept that many of the key facts and options presented at the time of the referendum were false?… Both sides were equally guilty of this.

Therefore, my issue is not about being a sore loser, or not accepting the outcome, but is about why would we choose to press ahead with a decision made on the basis of rhetoric and false information (again, on both sides).

That, at least to me, just feels dogmatic and isn’t there meant to be something about the government having a responsibility to protect the people (even from the people)?…

 

[JonW]

Or perhaps one might say

“I am a Leaver, but would accept a Remain vote if it was based on an honest understanding of what remaining meant, rather than ignoring the dignity and sage advice of mature folk who remember the United Kingdom as a proud sovereign nation which seemed to do quite well before the EU was invented”.

PH

Fair point - I’m equally happy with this way of describing it.

 

[lifes2short]

folks, ive just come up with this genius idea, may should enlist the services of the "cosa nostra" to negotiate, one way of course, a few horses heads later, job done and eu would be bending over backwards, bada bing

 

[TimR]

Completely agree with this... my sense is future generations on all sides of this issue will feel they were betrayed and let down by people who really ought to have known better.

I also really struggle with the idea that we must at all costs respect the “will of the people”...

I’m presuming most people now accept that many of the key facts and options presented at the time of the referendum were false?… Both sides were equally guilty of this.

Therefore, my issue is not about being a sore loser, or not accepting the outcome, but is about why would we choose to press ahead with a decision made on the basis of rhetoric and false information (again, on both sides).

That, at least to me, just feels dogmatic and isn’t there meant to be something about the government having a responsibility to protect the people (even from the people)?…

Absolutely...!

Even if we dont get a clearer consensus, it isnt about agreement..its about giving an better informed choice back to the people. There is no putting the Genie back in the bottle. That ship has sailed.
Science , and mathematics are no strangers to the notion of "robustness" A null hypothesis. You dont derive laws of the universe on a fluke..so prove it !
If we're going to self destruct, lets be clear our moment, our "singularity" is the only way- and sit back and enjoy the fireworks !

 

[JonW]

At times of stress, many (including me) take solace in music...

Here are some “mature” folk wih a soothing message

 

[Navcorr]

Nice. Never knew F&G invented the roller disco.

 

[GeoffCapes]

I’m presuming most people now accept that many of the key facts and options presented at the time of the referendum were false?… Both sides were equally guilty of this.

Therefore, my issue is not about being a sore loser, or not accepting the outcome, but is about why would we choose to press ahead with a decision made on the basis of rhetoric and false information (again, on both sides).

Jon, you have absolutely nailed it mate!

 

[daverichardson]

ahh singing to your girl in the park with an orchestra behind the bushes
Happened to me in Albert Park Middlesbrough - honest

 

[TridentTested]

One side is going to feel betrayed.

And none of this needed to happen:-

 

[TridentTested]

Do you see “leave blah blah blah “
*subject to the Uk being able to negotiate this, that or another deal with those that will never let anyone leave being in place” on the ballot paper

I did.

I knew in 2016 that the only country in the world not in a trade association is the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. It was always going to be the case that UK needs to "negotiate this that or another deal".

I have greater ambition for the UK than emulating Mauritania.