Brexit Deal

[Wattie]

I did.

I knew in 2016 that the only country in the world not in a trade association is the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. It was always going to be the case that UK needs to "negotiate this that or another deal".

I have greater ambition for the UK than emulating Mauritania.

The question posed by the government wasn’t open to individual interpretation.
It was clear.
Remain
Leave
Tick the box you want.
Remain lost.

Respect democracy or forever be done with what the majority voted for.

Cheers Wattie

 

[TridentTested]

The question posed by the government wasn’t open to individual interpretation.

"absolutely no one is talking about threatening our place in the single market".

"only a fool would leave the single market".

"Norway is doing well, Switzerland is doing well. I say, let's be like Norway".

 

[Wanderer]

The person who wrote the ballot question needed a lesson in modal verbs. Unless he was being extremely clever.....

 

[2b1ask1]

The question has just been asked in the house (Parliament) “Are MP’s trying to steal Brexit away from the people, in which case it would be a travesty.”

 

[TridentTested]

The person who wrote the ballot question needed a lesson in modal verbs. Unless he was being extremely clever.....

The person who launched the whole thing should be locked up in the tower.

Guys, if you are going to have referendums take a lesson from the Irish. Ireland has had 30 since the Republic was founded.

The recent one on abortion was preceded by: firstly, a 99 person citizens' task force was set up. Citizens drawn at random from the population. They proposed the direction of the referendum, commentators noted that their aspirations were actually more ambitious than the politicians had been considering. This was passed to a cross-party working group which drew up the question and the government published a White Paper on what would be done following the result. This White Paper was posted to every elector in the country.

People did indeed know what they were voting for.

 

[daverichardson]

In life we all make decisions.
We then follow that path until it becomes clear that the decision is either working or not
If working we stick with it
If not we alter our decision at the next opportune time
Here a decision has been made and that is all.
We have not followed that decision - yet
We do not know if it will work or not -yet
The next opportune time if it does not work would be an election where there is an alternative given by parties

 

[dickygrace]

It’s surprising that people say that a second referendum is undemocratic, just think about that for a second.

 

[Zep]

This thread has done well because there are reasoned arguments for and against.

After this long none of us are likely to be swayed one way or the other. But it is encouraging to see an exchange of views in that we might at least give a little colour to each other’s arguments.

Opinions are like belly buttons - we all have one and they are all different. But having one at all is one of the things that makes us the same.

 

[2b1ask1]

Contemplating your navel Zep?

 

[Navcorr]

It’s surprising that people say that a second referendum is undemocratic, just think about that for a second.

Would you "accept" another no vote though? Even "knowing" more today than in '16. Or are you assuming, as in '16, that remain would win another ref? I'm not convinced remain supporters, as a "sweeping" generalisation, fully consider the future implications of EU membership. Rather, it's better the devil you know.

 

[dickygrace]

Would you "accept" another no vote though? Even "knowing" more today than in '16. Or are you assuming, as in '16, that remain would win another ref? I'm not convinced remain supporters, as a "sweeping" generalisation, fully consider the future implications of EU membership. Rather, it's better the devil you know.

I would accept a second no vote. If that were to happen then it would be clear, and fair, as people are now far more aware of the implications of Brexit than they were at the outset.

 

[zagatoes30]

In my view the best way to change a club is be in it, if you're outside you have no influence and nor should you.

From what I can see we appear to have negotiated an exit from the club with the lack of influence that entails but have agreed to continue to pay membership and abide by some of the rules very bizarre. This is certainly a worse position than where we were so the response is to reject that option storm off in a huff and leave with the door slamming behind us without any plans as to what we will do now. This once again leaves us in a worse position than before (even if it is for a short period of time).

A second referendum won't help, if the result stays the same we are still out without a plan, if it changes we have to go back to the other members of the club, say we're sorry and we won't do it again which again is a worse position than where we were.

Ultimately we have screwed up, at the start of this process I could see no demonstrable benefit from leaving and IMO we are going to be worse off regardless of what we do, one of many reasons why this remainer is seriously considering being a leaver.

 

[outrun]

We could start a new club of our own so we're out of the EU but in with a new gang. How about having a chat with Norway, Iceland, Belarus, Macedonia and Russia to form the EU2? It could be like the Nations League where you have a chance to qualify for the EU if you win the final. I'd invite Canada to join too as we like them lot over there. A global trade federation including Canada and Russia but precluding the EU member states and the USA.

Hunger Games - Global Edition - Let the games begin.

 

[GeoffCapes]

We could start a new club of our own so we're out of the EU but in with a new gang. How about having a chat with Norway, Iceland, Belarus, Macedonia and Russia to form the EU2? It could be like the Nations League where you have a chance to qualify for the EU if you win the final. I'd invite Canada to join too as we like them lot over there. A global trade federation including Canada and Russia but precluding the EU member states and the USA.

Hunger Games - Global Edition - Let the games begin.

Just join a gang with Russia. At least that way we won't be invaded as I don't fancy Belarus and Macedonia's chances.

 

[JonW]

I would accept a second no vote. If that were to happen then it would be clear, and fair, as people are now far more aware of the implications of Brexit than they were at the outset.

I completely agree with this - but the question is also whether those who voted to Leave would similarly accept a change in the answer? I think half the people who insist it would be unfair / undemocratic to have another vote are doing so because they have a concern that the answer would be different now that people have a better understanding of the issues.

It’s an absolute bugger’s muddle....

 

[TridentTested]

Hunger Games - Global Edition - Let the games begin.

The last time Britain allied itself to Russia and France (1894), the time Germany allied itself to Austria-Hungary, it didn't turn out too well.

Which brings us neatly a full circle to what the EU has been remarkable successful at.

 

[outrun]

 

[Navcorr]

I would accept a second no vote. If that were to happen then it would be clear, and fair, as people are now far more aware of the implications of Brexit than they were at the outset.

A reasonable point of view and one shared by many. Would you also say that the EU's true colours have been seen during the so called negotiations? Wattie, imho, is absolutely right that today's mess has largely come about through negotiating incompetence. Rather than Brexit consequences. A very good negotiating position has been wasted and I wonder if a "better deal" or a fully prepared no deal scenario would have brought about a different remain response.

 

[Zep]

Contemplating your navel Zep?

As usual

 

[Andyk]

I voted in but I don't give a feck anymore...in or out.....do what you want. It's just made us look like a joke.