Are you worried yet.

[iainw]

You're right about hospital footage. None whatsoever. I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but there must be some sort of cover up agreement there

I am suprised at the institutional brain washing going on.

 

[rockits]

I'll put my tin foil hat on ready but.....

What if we really closed the country right down to absolute bare minimum operation and demand. I mean really basic. A kind of temporary massive deflation in that we only need the minimum to stay alive.

Everything pauses for 3 months minimum in total lockdown. The markets are paused, mortgages everything is paused. We just live to the absolute bare minimum and I mean minimum. No interpretation of what 'essential' means. If we all reduced what we need to survive the money and resources would surely also be massively reduced.

We only run essential core services to keep systems running, food and water produced , heating and lightning so absolute bare minimum essentials. We don't have building sites open etc.

If we had no mortgages, no loans to pay and reduced all down to a minimum is that beneficial?

Yes, there is potential for great sacrifice and risk of mental health issues etc. but what if we hit it hard for 3 months and eradicate the virus rather than tickle it for 1 year+?

I agree testing is key but surely if we eradicate the virus there is no risk of infection or re infection as it doesn't exist. Bill Gates obviously tried to eradicate malaria and polio then got annoyingly so close to eradicating polio before a set back.

If their was global political will and global conformity the virus will disappear and will be killed off. As far as I know this has only ever happened once in the history of this planet with smallpox. Is it not possible though with only 3 months of total global lockdown/shutdown to absolute bare minimum of resources?

I know wild animals might be able to roam free and do their worst as we couldn't police or control this but it would naturally die out at some point and we aren't dealing or controlling this aspect now anyway.

Yes, it is a big ask and a massive challenge but also at the least economic cost medium to long term and likely the least cost of lives as well.

Am I nuts?

 

[iainw]

Thanks for the good wishes, we have had a long talk about how she can protect herself including wearing the correct PPE which I can provide to a limited degree if she can't get it at work and is allowed to wear her own.
I understand the point you make about ITU, they know what they are dealing with and have the protection they need, for everyone else it's a little like Russian Roulette.
Even outside the NHS there are frontline hero's who get no mention in the media but are at for uppermost in my mind.
It's all gone a bit quiet in the media about the availability of ventilators, I assume some of the supply from the new manufacturers is starting to land.
God Bless everyone doing their bit.

They are realising that the ventilator situation was all BS from the start- as I have been saying for a while. Gave them something to focus on. As others have said- there is no treatment for this, and there was never enough trained staff to man them. Prevention is the only hope until vaccines are possible. Herd immunity isn’t a possible option unless people can handle the human fall out.

 

[CatmanV2]

You're right about hospital footage. None whatsoever. I don't normally go in for conspiracy theories but there must be some sort of cover up agreement there

You weren't watching BBC during the week then? Whole series of reports from St Thomas. Lots of other reports by consultants ICU across the UK....

C

 

[mjheathcote]

There is no hiding from the fact that today's announcement of 980 new UK deaths has surpassed Italy and Spain's worst days during this pandemic. This is not counting the care home and ‘at home’ deaths which will be significant. Some of the letters local heath authorities are sending out to vunerable patients is shocking.
Italy's highest death toll was 969; Spain's 950. This is mental this early. More to come. Interesting
How Italy was described as ‘a Tsunami with no time to plan’... and they seem so well resourced from what we see on TV PPE wise, and news from the front line compared to our own. Now our figures are being calmly displayed as though we are fine. And our PPE and our beds are **** compared to Italy- 9.2 ITU beds per 100,000 vs 6.1. Don’t even Mention Germany’s 20+. Italy have a more hierarchical system led by clinical professors and not management ... Britain/ the NHS is in for an awakening I think. It would be interesting to see the same footage out of the NHS hospitals that the media was so keen to display from Italy. Has anyone seen any?

Update from my undertaker friend in Barnsley is that the morgue extension only built a few days ago by the army is at capacity, and he is having to store deceased in his storage unit. This never gets in the news
Asking the percentage split between hospital and care homes etc he says 50/50.
Based on that alone there are many more unrecorded covid-19 deaths from care/nursing homes.
If the Spanish and Italian, and France figures include care and nursing homes, we have it much worse than published figures.

 

[MrMickS]

I can understand your point but UKG is facing a situation where they are damned if they do and damed if they dont. At some point there will be a decision taken to get the economy restarted again against the backdrop of hopefully significantly reducing infection and mortality rates . But for this to ride on indefinitely waiting for a vaccine which might not be available until next year is I suspect also not an option.

They need to be testing more. We need to know the spread of the disease in the community not just in hospitals.

They’ve kept promising to increase testing and missed every target that they’ve set.

We deserve to be told what the strategy is. What the criteria are for easing lockdown. What the plans are when they start to do it. This will help the economy much more than the mushroom management approach they are currently taking.

The worrying thing is that I suspect they don’t know.

 

[highlander]

I'll put my tin foil hat on ready but.....

What if we really closed the country right down to absolute bare minimum operation and demand. I mean really basic. A kind of temporary massive deflation in that we only need the minimum to stay alive.

Everything pauses for 3 months minimum in total lockdown. The markets are paused, mortgages everything is paused. We just live to the absolute bare minimum and I mean minimum. No interpretation of what 'essential' means. If we all reduced what we need to survive the money and resources would surely also be massively reduced.

We only run essential core services to keep systems running, food and water produced , heating and lightning so absolute bare minimum essentials. We don't have building sites open etc.

If we had no mortgages, no loans to pay and reduced all down to a minimum is that beneficial?

Yes, there is potential for great sacrifice and risk of mental health issues etc. but what if we hit it hard for 3 months and eradicate the virus rather than tickle it for 1 year+?

I agree testing is key but surely if we eradicate the virus there is no risk of infection or re infection as it doesn't exist. Bill Gates obviously tried to eradicate malaria and polio then got annoyingly so close to eradicating polio before a set back.

If their was global political will and global conformity the virus will disappear and will be killed off. As far as I know this has only ever happened once in the history of this planet with smallpox. Is it not possible though with only 3 months of total global lockdown/shutdown to absolute bare minimum of resources?

I know wild animals might be able to roam free and do their worst as we couldn't police or control this but it would naturally die out at some point and we aren't dealing or controlling this aspect now anyway.

Yes, it is a big ask and a massive challenge but also at the least economic cost medium to long term and likely the least cost of lives as well.

Am I nuts?

Not nuts, no but we still live in a world that is interconnected, and will remain so through and after this so locking down the world is just not possible. I have sadly came to the conclusion that the lockdown here will have to end to avoid total collapse of the country and we are therefore going to have to live with this until a vaccine is found. The lockdown will end when the gov think the nhs can cope, not because they think they have beat the virus. That will mean deaths beyond the lockdown will be inevitable, but they knew that since as I said, the lockdown was not aimed at saving lives, it was about flattening the curve so the nhs did not collapse.

 

[mjheathcote]

Not nuts, no but we still live in a world that is interconnected, and will remain so through and after this so locking down the world is just not possible. I have sadly came to the conclusion that the lockdown here will have to end to avoid total collapse of the country and we are therefore going to have to live with this until a vaccine is found. The lockdown will end when the gov think the nhs can cope, not because they think they have beat the virus. That will mean deaths beyond the lockdown will be inevitable, but they knew that since as I said, the lockdown was not aimed at saving lives, it was about flattening the curve so the nhs did not collapse.

I agree. Not saving lives, delaying the care/deaths, until a vaccination is available.

 

[iainw]

Update from my undertaker friend in Barnsley is that the morgue extension only built a few days ago by the army is at capacity, and he is having to store deceased in his storage unit. This never gets in the news
Asking the percentage split between hospital and care homes etc he says 50/50.
Based on that alone there are many more unrecorded covid-19 deaths from care/nursing homes.
If the Spanish and Italian, and France figures include care and nursing homes, we have it much worse than published figures.

Agree/ It’s a different level. France figures do include from nursing homes but I don’t think Italy and Spain do. Temporary morgues filling up airport hangars and also being built on site of hospitals. It’s fair enough not to share this with the general public - that’s too much info.

 

[iainw]

You weren't watching BBC during the week then? Whole series of reports from St Thomas. Lots of other reports by consultants ICU across the UK....

C

No I didn’t - and I was talking about some real footage which wasn’t set up. I see it every day so I don’t need to watch it on the news. I would just like others to see it.

 

[D Walker]

Agree/ It’s a different level. France figures do include from nursing homes but I don’t think Italy and Spain do. Temporary morgues filling up airport hangars and also being built on site of hospitals. It’s fair enough not to share this with the general public - that’s too much info.

I don’t. If the public have the real figures the idiots may stay home....

 

[Wattie]

I can understand your point but UKG is facing a situation where they are damned if they do and damed if they dont. At some point there will be a decision taken to get the economy restarted again against the backdrop of hopefully significantly reducing infection and mortality rates . But for this to ride on indefinitely waiting for a vaccine which might not be available until next year is I suspect also not an option.

I can understand your point but UKG is facing a situation where they are damned if they do and damed if they dont. At some point there will be a decision taken to get the economy restarted again against the backdrop of hopefully significantly reducing infection and mortality rates . But for this to ride on indefinitely waiting for a vaccine which might not be available until next year is I suspect also not an option.

Agreed. Something has to give.

 

[Wattie]

I am suprised at the institutional brain washing going on.

I’m not susceptible to brain washing. I don’t have one.

 

[Wattie]

I'll put my tin foil hat on ready but.....

What if we really closed the country right down to absolute bare minimum operation and demand. I mean really basic. A kind of temporary massive deflation in that we only need the minimum to stay alive.

Everything pauses for 3 months minimum in total lockdown. The markets are paused, mortgages everything is paused. We just live to the absolute bare minimum and I mean minimum. No interpretation of what 'essential' means. If we all reduced what we need to survive the money and resources would surely also be massively reduced.

We only run essential core services to keep systems running, food and water produced , heating and lightning so absolute bare minimum essentials. We don't have building sites open etc.

If we had no mortgages, no loans to pay and reduced all down to a minimum is that beneficial?

Yes, there is potential for great sacrifice and risk of mental health issues etc. but what if we hit it hard for 3 months and eradicate the virus rather than tickle it for 1 year+?

I agree testing is key but surely if we eradicate the virus there is no risk of infection or re infection as it doesn't exist. Bill Gates obviously tried to eradicate malaria and polio then got annoyingly so close to eradicating polio before a set back.

If their was global political will and global conformity the virus will disappear and will be killed off. As far as I know this has only ever happened once in the history of this planet with smallpox. Is it not possible though with only 3 months of total global lockdown/shutdown to absolute bare minimum of resources?

I know wild animals might be able to roam free and do their worst as we couldn't police or control this but it would naturally die out at some point and we aren't dealing or controlling this aspect now anyway.

Yes, it is a big ask and a massive challenge but also at the least economic cost medium to long term and likely the least cost of lives as well.

Am I nuts?

Nope, I suggested this about 8 weeks ago.....re isolation.
The economic side of things can’t be suspended.

 

[rockits]

Nope, I suggested this about 8 weeks ago.....re isolation.
The economic side of things can’t be suspended.

Everything stops for bank holidays....just make them 3 months long

 

[Wattie]

Everything stops for bank holidays....just make them 3 months long

That’s a lot of rain.

 

[Phil the Brit]

No.


We have no treatment for COVID-19. All we are doing is providing aid for breathing and letting the disease take its course. It will reduce morbidity levels if we can provide this for everyone.

Until we can test for the disease quickly, contact trace, and isolate we aren’t squashing the disease. We are just controlling the rate at which it goes through the population. This will result in many more deaths.

We are pushing for herd immunity which, until we have an antibody test that works, is unproven. There are some worrying Chinese reports, taken with a huge pinch of salt, that some patients aren’t building up sufficient antibodies to prevent re-infection. If this is found to be true then, depending on the incidence of this, herd immunity is a long way off.

Yes, not no.
If people self isolate then transmission stops. (protects NHS AND saves lives). It of course also flattens the curve.
Self isolation means that infected person R0 doesn't get to pass it on before it dies within.

 

[rockits]

That’s a lot of rain.

Indeed....sometimes the weather gets rough and tough. Suck it up

 

[MrMickS]

Yes, not no.
If people self isolate then transmission stops. (protects NHS AND saves lives). It of course also flattens the curve.
Self isolation means that infected person R0 doesn't get to pass it on before it dies within.

No, not yes.

Whilst during lockdown R0 is curtailed it depends on the aim. If the aim is to stop the disease then lockdown needs to continue until there are no new cases and we have sufficient testing.

Given the instructions to the Passport Office staff I fear that lockdown will be eased when the rate becomes manageable. The idea being to infect the population to aim to build up herd immunity. This leads to more cases, and deaths, that squashing the disease.

 

[Wattie]

Death rate of intensive care coronavirus patients hits 51% as UK fatalities see record increase of 980
The death rate of patients admitted to intensive care with coronavirus now stands at more than 51 per cent, according to a study of critical care outcomes.

Read in Evening Standard: https://apple.news/AhD0PJ2w7TVa-AWFb2iLKSw