Goodbye

Ewan · Dec 8, 2020

rivarama said:
Can someone please help me find the “block” button?

Click on the name of the person you want to block, and then click where it says “ignore”. It’s that quick/simple.

Corranga · Dec 8, 2020

midlifecrisis said:
One thing I can say about the members on this forum, is that many are not privileged. They are individuals who are hard working or have worked hard, the Maserati that sits in their garage or driveway is the fruit of said labour.

Privileged, nah. Grumpy maybe.

Scaf said:
You have just described my local pub !
(Apart from the privileged bit) I have never been called privileged before and sadly I had to look up the meaning of cis males, my Google search will never be the same again and the pop ups I will get for the next month will be enlightening

Being white and male automatically makes your privileged as it offers you more opportunities in life than your identical counterparts from another race. More likely to be paid more than a woman, more likely to have a good education, less likely to be shot by an American cop, less likely to die of disease or starvation than an Ethiopian, that’s privilege.

I grew up in a council flat in a postcode that was being robbed when it wasn’t on fire. I was bullied at school for being skinny and wearing glasses and having big teeth.
If I was black I’d have been bullied for being black, skinny and wearing glasses and having big teeth.
That’s privilege.

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

MarkMas said:
I agree with @conaero that mostly this forum is a good place to be.

But I also share some of the concerns that @Oneball has raised. Not just the issue of racism, but also the abusive language that flares up sometimes. And, over the past year, I have had PMs from a handful of members expressing concerns about racism, sexism, abuse and bullying on here, and saying that they have dropped out of threads and blocked people because of it. That does nor sound very welcoming and inclusive to me.

On racism, it is clear to me that many people on here are very confident that they are not racist, but some of them also communicate in ways that are very clearly perceived as racist by others. I'm not saying that perception is everything, but I'd like to think that people might actually consider the effect of what they are saying, and not just rely on their own certainties.
I can see how a black person on this forum might feel very alienated indeed by vigorous dismissals of the prevalence of racism, casual mentions of lazy people with a Caribbean parents, or assumptions about the ethnicity of bad drivers in flash wedding cars, or self-made (white) men using their lack of general privilege to dismiss the added challenges experienced by black people, or 'just saying' about including black people in an advertisement, or about all lives mattering.

On the abuse and bullying, this too has got out of hand on several occasions, notably in the Brexit and COVID threads, and those insults and escalations should probably have been nipped in the bud sooner, in my opinion.

Really, it seems to me that the problem is that a few people who are very confident of their rightness, and very willing to be vivid and confrontational in their communication style, seem to think that this is an unqualified virtue, and seem both to feel free and to be free to behave in this way whatever the impact on others. It seems to me that such people should be able to express their views perfectly well here, without needing to be so confrontational.

You've just posted the exact same thing as "they" do, just more eloquently.

You write beautifully, but you're still just voicing your opinion, to which some will be offended or feel singled out.

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

Dan! said:
You've just posted the exact same thing as "they" do, just more eloquently.

You write beautifully, but you're still just voicing your opinion, to which some will be offended or feel singled out.

I confess I don't agree. I think there's a difference, but I'm struggling to elucidate. Certainly part of it is that Mark (and others) are challenging the behaviour, not the person. The response <generalisation> seems to be to to respond to a challenge to a view point or opinion as a personal attack, but I have not gathered any data to back that up. </generalisation>

C

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

MarkMas said:
I agree with @conaero that mostly this forum is a good place to be.

But I also share some of the concerns that @Oneball has raised. Not just the issue of racism, but also the abusive language that flares up sometimes. And, over the past year, I have had PMs from a handful of members expressing concerns about racism, sexism, abuse and bullying on here, and saying that they have dropped out of threads and blocked people because of it. That does nor sound very welcoming and inclusive to me.

On racism, it is clear to me that many people on here are very confident that they are not racist, but some of them also communicate in ways that are very clearly perceived as racist by others. I'm not saying that perception is everything, but I'd like to think that people might actually consider the effect of what they are saying, and not just rely on their own certainties.
I can see how a black person on this forum might feel very alienated indeed by vigorous dismissals of the prevalence of racism, casual mentions of lazy people with a Caribbean parents, or assumptions about the ethnicity of bad drivers in flash wedding cars, or self-made (white) men using their lack of general privilege to dismiss the added challenges experienced by black people, or 'just saying' about including black people in an advertisement, or about all lives mattering.

On the abuse and bullying, this too has got out of hand on several occasions, notably in the Brexit and COVID threads, and those insults and escalations should probably have been nipped in the bud sooner, in my opinion.

Really, it seems to me that the problem is that a few people who are very confident of their rightness, and very willing to be vivid and confrontational in their communication style, seem to think that this is an unqualified virtue, and seem both to feel free and to be free to behave in this way whatever the impact on others. It seems to me that such people should be able to express their views perfectly well here, without needing to be so confrontational.

It wasn’t a ‘casual’ story about someone of Caribbean extraction, it was a personal story about an individual who played the race card to his advantage, and it was within the context of a discussion that became about race. If you are (too) easily offended then so be it, but how in h3ll would you know how a black person would feel on here? You might think you are empathetic to the feelings of the rest of society but trust me, you aren’t. Sure, I use a lot of bad language, I always have done but that is my choice. If it offends you, block me and move on I can assure you I won’t lose any sleep over it. FWIW, you also seem very confident in your rightness, even though you are backing someone who showed their true colours in a post about his Greek friend. You will probably regard this repost as bullying but it isn’t, it’s just someone with a different opinion to yourself who is trying to express it in the clearest terms possible.

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

CatmanV2 said:
I confess I don't agree. I think there's a difference, but I'm struggling to elucidate. Certainly part of it is that Mark (and others) are challenging the behaviour, not the person. The response <generalisation> seems to be to to respond to a challenge to a view point or opinion as a personal attack, but I have not gathered any data to back that up. </generalisation>

C

Can you say the same thing, but with less words and code? It's getting late and it's been a busy evening.

allandwf · Dec 8, 2020

I have found that some managers I have worked under over the years, if you disagreed with their point of view took that as a personal attack.

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

CatmanV2 said:
I confess I don't agree. I think there's a difference, but I'm struggling to elucidate. Certainly part of it is that Mark (and others) are challenging the behaviour, not the person. The response <generalisation> seems to be to to respond to a challenge to a view point or opinion as a personal attack, but I have not gathered any data to back that up. </generalisation>

I have to disagree; we are only putting our view as to why we don’t consider ourselves racist. If you don’t agree with that then that is something you will have to try and deal with.

Corranga · Dec 8, 2020

BennyD said:
I am not being racist; I am merely relating a story about A mixed origin person I have personal experience of because he openly admitted playing the race card. Not all black, OR WHITE, guys play with a straight bat and I was merely pointing that out in the context of the discussion. If you take that to mean that I’m saying all mixed race people are the same then that IS your fault. I meet very few black people these days but the ones I do meet I generally get on very well with, and two of the best pilots I know were of Indian extraction. My ‘fixation’ on Hamilton’s colour is entirely due to the fact that Oneball called me a racist because I can’t stand the guy. He, like you, is making the mistake of applying your thought process to what I’m posting. I’ve flown with, worked with, drunk with, eaten with many black guys and not once have any of my black friends ever called me racist.

You’re being racist again. The term ‘mixed origins’ is racist, things can be mixed, people can’t.
There is a difference between being a racist and being racist, perhaps you are the latter. Someone who is inadvertently saying racist things in the belief that is ok and not racist. You become a racist when you choose to ignore those telling you that you are being racist, and choose not to change your rhetoric.

Also, despite what you’re saying here, you did single out a Caribbean/English person in a comparison, and specifically mentioned their race when comparing to another Black person, that is racist. You are saying you were talking of someone playing the race card. If you weren’t doing this then why single out that 1 person over there surely thousands of other people you’ve met in your life, it makes no sense.

On an unrelated note, I’d like to say I’m replying to you because you are engaging. I initially quoted you because it was the last post in the thread and I had comment on it, I’m not specifically singling you out.

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

Dan! said:
Can you say the same thing, but with less words and code? It's getting late and it's been a busy evening.

I can try, but I may well fall into the same trap. The response to a challenge of ideas tends to be an attack on the person that is making the challenge as opposed to a discussion about the ideas themselves. That's a generalisation.

C

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

BennyD said:
I have to disagree; we are only putting our view as to why we don’t consider ourselves racist. If you don’t agree with that then that is something you will have to try and deal with.

I respect your disagreement.

C

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

allandwf said:
I have found that some managers I have worked under over the years, if you disagreed with their point of view took that as a personal attack.

Simple, don't disagree with your manager. They're there to manage you, not the other way around.
If your opinion mattered you'd be sat at their desk and they at yours.

There's no respect for authority these days...

alfatwo · Dec 8, 2020

What I like about this place over others is most on here are technically astute, like having the crack and sometimes really taking the p*ss!
The banter's nothing personal.

Dave

Lozzer · Dec 8, 2020

Corranga said:
You’re being racist again. The term ‘mixed origins’ is racist, things can be mixed, people can’t.
There is a difference between being a racist and being racist, perhaps you are the latter. Someone who is inadvertently saying racist things in the belief that is ok and not racist. You become a racist when you choose to ignore those telling you that you are being racist, and choose not to change your rhetoric.

Also, despite what you’re saying here, you did single out a Caribbean/English person in a comparison, and specifically mentioned their race when comparing to another Black person, that is racist. You are saying you were talking of someone playing the race card. If you weren’t doing this then why single out that 1 person over there surely thousands of other people you’ve met in your life, it makes no sense.

On an unrelated note, I’d like to say I’m replying to you because you are engaging. I initially quoted you because it was the last post in the thread and I had comment on it, I’m not specifically singling you out.

I find that most incoherent.

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

Corranga said:
You’re being racist again. The term ‘mixed origins’ is racist, things can be mixed, people can’t.
There is a difference between being a racist and being racist, perhaps you are the latter. Someone who is inadvertently saying racist things in the belief that is ok and not racist. You become a racist when you choose to ignore those telling you that you are being racist, and choose not to change your rhetoric.

Also, despite what you’re saying here, you did single out a Caribbean/English person in a comparison, and specifically mentioned their race when comparing to another Black person, that is racist. You are saying you were talking of someone playing the race card. If you weren’t doing this then why single out that 1 person over there surely thousands of other people you’ve met in your life, it makes no sense.

On an unrelated note, I’d like to say I’m replying to you because you are engaging. I initially quoted you because it was the last post in the thread and I had comment on it, I’m not specifically singling you out.

I’m not having a discussion with anyone as ‘Woke’ as you. Everything I henceforth post will cause offence, and will, therefore, be construed as racist. As person of mixed origin has always related to a person who’s parents are of different cultures, if you find racist offence at that then that’s your problem. I am not being overtly racist, I just don’t keep up to what is ‘woke’, and therefore acceptable, on social media. Please press my user name, then press ignore so you don’t have to endure any accidental, unpremeditated racism from me in the future.

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

CatmanV2 said:
I can try, but I may well fall into the same trap. The response to a challenge of ideas tends to be an attack on the person that is making the challenge as opposed to a discussion about the ideas themselves. That's a generalisation.

C

Can that be summarised further? I'm still struggling. Perhaps 5 words or less?

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

Please block eachother

BennyD said:
I’m not having a discussion with anyone as ‘Woke’ as you. Everything I henceforth post will cause offence, and will, therefore, be construed as racist. As person of mixed origin has always related to a person who’s parents are of different cultures, if you find racist offence at that then that’s your problem. I am not being overtly racist, I just don’t keep up to what is ‘woke’, and therefore acceptable, on social media. Please press my user name, then press ignore so you don’t have to endure any accidental, unpremeditated racism from me in the future.

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

Dan! said:
Can that be summarised further? I'm still struggling. Perhaps 5 words or less?

Not easily. As you say, it's been a long day.

C

Wack61 · Dec 8, 2020

This forum needs an ignore thread button

I joined a forum mostly populated by the retired but thankfully they have an ignore thread button so I can ignore the constant threads that pop up because their brexit/corona virus post is far too important to get lost in a dedicated thread.

It's a bit like playing whack a mole though

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

Wack61 said:
This forum needs an ignore thread button

I'd vote for that

C

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