Brexit Deal

Rwc13 said:

Or what they have had to contend with after the waste and overspending of previous Governments.....

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Youll get no argument out of me. I dont think recent successive govts have been straight with any of us frankly....
Doesnt change the premis of my point however...you cant shrink debt in a capitalist economy by strangling economic activity....its plain stupid. And immoral when inevitably it is at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable in society..IMO ! Once you start doing that, you no longer have a society. You're in the zoo !

daverichardson said:

These days we accept an unemployed figure of around a million people.
I can remember a time when that was abhorrent and it is not that long ago and governments lost elections because of it

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People aren't unemployed any more , they're at school to 18 at their parents expense , uni to 21 at their expense or on disability in their mobility cars , I bet the fudged figure is closer to 5m than 1m

Getting off the subject for a mo.. I was served by a young black immigrant women in Boots chemist in Sainsbury's this afternoon, she could hardly speak any English, Infact I had to write down on a bit paper what prescription I was collecting

This women hadn't got a clue what she was doing yet she was handing out prescription's..

We need to get our country back!

Dave

Swedish Paul said:

There will be a lot of landlords crapping themselves now too.

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Yes, this

My industry is getting worse, im hearing of more and more ex colleagues leaving the industry
House prices in North London have not gone up in the last 18 months Landlords have slowed down in buy to let properties due to the stamo duty
Hope this wont last long, not that im in the industry or want to be in but more for the economy

MarkMas said:

The current 'leave' proposal is absurd. It does take a very special kind of negotiation to take us from 'Being a member of the EU with some influence and the option to unilaterally leave.' to 'Being a member of the EU with no influence or rights and no option to unilaterally leave.' And to propose that as a 'good deal'.

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Absolutely agree.
Following the recent legal revelations May’s deal is in fact “Bremain indefinitely” with no voice, no vote, no veto, no nothing........rather than Brexit. Further it’s almost treasonous in my opinion and negligent to try to force this on Mp’s and the British people as the only deal available.

It’s not and to ignore this horrific legal advice is unforgivable.

The democratic vote was to leave. This was not leave subject to this, that or some other deal.

It was leave.

The Uk govt position from day one should have been to state we’re leaving, we ain’t paying you any more money and are walking away from discussions using the two years to plan for such an event in March 19.

You cannot negotiate with Europe as it is not in their interests to allow anyone to leave.......ever. They bully every country that opposes its view.

With the Uk position clear and most European countries in a f****d financial position they would have been chasing us for a deal as they and indeed the rest of the world knows the problems a “no deal” will present to the fake everything’s hunky global economy/financial image.

Why do you think every world leader was trying to encourage May to avoid a “no deal” at the G20.....they know the dominos will start to fall in a “no deal” scenario.

IMO, I’d rather have a no deal but full sovereignty control rather than be beholden to Europe indefinitely. It would end the nonsense in 3 months and we can get on with things.

May said herself “no deal is better than a bad deal”........her deal is a fraud, an abomination and a betrayal of UK democracy. further, with her deal the negotiating only starts now.....and could last a lifetime.

Respect democracy, use the next 3 months to walk away and stand tall.
Cheers Wattie

Well put Wattie

What he said above

Agree but the amount of shite it will cause is unthinkable.

Yep, for the UK.

In a nutshell, Europe want it to fail. If we walk away holding all the cards, other countries will leave and the Europe domino collapse.

Do I want that, no...as much as I hate the Euro model. It works for the majority of the countries.

Contigo said:

Agree but the amount of shite it will cause is unthinkable.

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There will be some pain but at the moment its
UK nil
Europe and rest of the world 1

No deal Means
Uk nil but full sovereignty to get out there and sign deals etc
Europe and the rest of the world nil and pain too.....Europe’s financial position is a house of cards. As 1 example think of the sh1t Macron would face if we banned French boats from our waters next March......the yellow jackets would be joined by fisherman and he’d be in the bastille!

Which is why I think they would bottle it and strike some sort of deal that avoided pain for everyone as far as possible.

I’m for dragging everyone down if need be as no-one would be immune.

Cheers Wattie

Oh and by the way don’t believe all those 10 year economic forecasts. They can’t even predict a year or so ahead so that is total fantasy and scaremongering too.
Not one central bank saw the gfc coming...that’s how good they are at predicting the future.
Cher’s wattie

conaero said:

Yep, for the UK.

In a nutshell, Europe want it to fail. If we walk away holding all the cards, other countries will leave and the Europe domino collapse.

Do I want that, no...as much as I hate the Euro model. It works for the majority of the countries.

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Your statement shows exactly how bad and naive May has been. If we all know that Europe will never allow a country to walk away why didnt they? There is no point in negotiating with them and the danger presented by the backstop is that we will be in Europes pockets perpetualy!

Europe will not be unscathed under a no deal..half of it is skint and living on ECB funding!!!

That’s my point...the Uk can walk away holding all its cards and in total control of its destiny.

It’s called “no deal” and everything else is a surrender to Europe’s dictated terms and refusal to accept a democratic decision against it.

They’ve known May was a remainer so have counted the clock down to reduce the options based on her pathetic negotiation skills.

Reject the deal, Call their bluff, be strong and walk away.

They’ll suffer as much as we will and so will other countries from the fallout.

Cheers Wattie

So in the event of a no deal how would you handle Northern Ireland, hard border, border in the Irish Sea? Scotland significantly voted to remain so will they now push for independence again? More pressure to break up the country at a time when we need to be strong and together.

Like you I hate the deal on the table it is the worse sort of compromise but we did send them in to negotiate with both hands tied behind their backs but I don't believe a no deal is much better. I don't buy the doom and gloom from the financial markets but equally I don't buy the leave view that everything will be better.

It is a mess, in my opinion it has exposed some of the worst things in politics and has shown them all to be either spineless whingers sitting on the outside throwing stones or powerless servants trying to make everybody like them. As I said I don't like the current deal but I like most of the alternative less, Corbyn, Johnson, Rees-Mogg all of them fill me with dread.

I think we have royally screwed this up and the impact will be long and far reaching.

Totally agreed Andy.
Why were so many lies told ??
Just unbelievable and really sad.

the whole thing is a cluster fook and in my opinion most if not all the leavers didn't look at the bigger picture and simply swallowed all the bull cr4p about how much better off the uk would be if we left, simples, if it aint broke don't fix it!

zagatoes30 said:

So in the event of a no deal how would you handle Northern Ireland, hard border, border in the Irish Sea? Scotland significantly voted to remain so will they now push for independence again? More pressure to break up the country at a time when we need to be strong and together.

Like you I hate the deal on the table it is the worse sort of compromise but we did send them in to negotiate with both hands tied behind their backs but I don't believe a no deal is much better. I don't buy the doom and gloom from the financial markets but equally I don't buy the leave view that everything will be better.

It is a mess, in my opinion it has exposed some of the worst things in politics and has shown them all to be either spineless whingers sitting on the outside throwing stones or powerless servants trying to make everybody like them. As I said I don't like the current deal but I like most of the alternative less, Corbyn, Johnson, Rees-Mogg all of them fill me with dread.

I think we have royally screwed this up and the impact will be long and far reaching.

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I’d negotiate the Irish border question and try to reach a workable compromise....but I’d be doing it on an equal footing not be tied to a “Brexit” deal with no say. If you view the Irish situation as breaking up the country then it’s already done under every scenario bar remain......and that overturns the democtaic vote to leave.
Ireland is an issue and always will be...best then to negotiate with all tools available and a level playing field.....not a loaded deck.

The Scotland situation is a red herring...some in Scotland will always want an independence vote.....this level of incompetence in London gives credence to the claims.....the new govt Brexit bloke even got the leaving date wrong yesterday......!!!!

By the way I’m Scottish and anti independence.

No surprise today that the Euro court says we can unilaterally overturn article 50 and a democratic decision because it suits Europe.

Bit like Ireland a few years ago....keep voting until you get the pro Europe decision.

Total ********.

Cheers Wattie

I think the concept of Nationhood is outmoded now, with easy travel, diversity, and even the internet, people are more nomadic and less allied to their birthplace.

If I remember my history, it was The Peace of Westphalia that established the principle of Nationhood over alignment to a Monarch, and it's changing again now from that to perhaps that of a economically driven one.

The EU's not perfect but it's a step forward and infinitely better than foraging for scraps of trade deals from USA and their chlorinated chickens.

I think it's too late to go back now an leave the EU, despite the (non-binding) referendum. If Brexit goes ahead I expect the pro-Europe groundswell to increase manyfold as it becomes obvious the UK isn't the attractive trade partner or World Power it thinks it is.

Either way it's not gonna end well, one party is going to be destroyed by this and let's face it, it's the Tories. Labour-in-Waiting.....

Can I just throw something else into the mix (and not meant to be contentious)

"What would Maggie have done?"

Love her or hate her, she was the last politician to do what was best for the country and not for personal gain. A tough negotiator too.

I've said it before Brexit just won't happen. May's deal will be binned by Parliament, there will be a second referendum, with actual facts rather than lies on the table and the British public will vote to stay in.

The Brexit brigade will complain that it is undemocratic and the original vote should still stand (based on what we now know to be utter lies).
But we vote for a new Government every few years so wheres the difference?

As for Sovereignty, we already have control of our borders, being an island helps that no end as well.
Those who think we wouldn't be in a financial mess if we leave the EU only have to listen to what Rees-Mogg. He said it would take 50 years for the country to get back on a similar financial footing. That means basically and entire generation (our children lifetimes) of complete and utter hardship. Would be like going back to the early 1900's.