New Kevlar Clutch

Paul1982 said:

Maserati running with Kevlar clutch: http://youtu.be/BOrztjPoH0c

Car is now dropped off to pro speed to put the new back boxes on as u can see they are missing in this video

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We all want to know, and he surely must have, set it up with his Leonardo (I think) diagnostic machine?

My mechanic called his friend who is a Maserati master tech who told him a way without actually plugging any diagnostic tools - for some ridiculous reason he won't tell me how though

Paul can you sit in the car and put it in reverse and 1st gear and show us the take off? Additionally, I hate to tell you this there is absolutely no way for that car to re-write it's own Kiss point on it's own or to factor in that it has a brand new clutch put in it. No Maserati or Ferrari tech is going to tell you any different. We have two Master exotic Techs on the forum in the U.S., not to mention Voicey works on them, and I personally work on these cars. We both own our own scan tools. No offense to you I'm calling BS.

I would love to know what's happened here. My money is it's been set up on a diagnostic. But this is good, if we've found a linger lasting clutch.

Of course, the clutch may have been swapped back to OEM as well.....

C

CatmanV2 said:

I would love to know what's happened here. My money is it's been set up on a diagnostic. But this is good, if we've found a linger lasting clutch.

Of course, the clutch may have been swapped back to OEM as well.....

C

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What "we have dropped a clanger here charlie, lets put the old one back in, he'll never know"
Unlikely one would hope.

mjheathcote said:

What "we have dropped a clanger here charlie, lets put the old one back in, he'll never know"
Unlikely one would hope.

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More charitably: "Bloody **** we've been at this hours, never get this to select reverse, let's bung in a new OEM and set that up"

I'd really hope so as well, but have to be suspicious about the not telling part.
C

CatmanV2 said:

More charitably: "Bloody **** we've been at this hours, never get this to select reverse, let's bung in a new OEM and set that up"

I'd really hope so as well, but have to be suspicious about the not telling part.
C

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New OEM costs money though, the old one nothing, and the parameters would be most likely still okay.

All this skullduggery has a bit of a whiff about it. The car needs a diag check which should show its just had a new clutch. Btw, have you seen the old clutch? Most (reputable) garages (with nothing to hide) will have still have it around for a while.

BennyD said:

All this skullduggery has a bit of a whiff about it. The car needs a diag check which should show its just had a new clutch. Btw, have you seen the old clutch? Most (reputable) garages (with nothing to hide) will have still have it around for a while.

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Good point, and being a reconditioned clutch that is fitted, the old one should be available for deposit return?

I've spoken to Paul a couple of times today and am hopeful that I can get to see the car at some point. (Obviously) I've been giving this a lot of thought and the only way I can think of adjusting the PIS mechanically is to move the magnet on the release bearing. This will alter the closed clutch position and thus the wear index and has a similar effect to moving the PIS.

I sincerely hope that this isn't what has happened.

Just to re-iterate - there is no way of adjusting the actual PIS value without a diagnostic tool. You can on very early 360's (with TCU 176552) but this was removed in early 2001. The Maserati TCUs do not have this function.

In fact, as this car is a later 4200 it may even have the DEIS functionality which has an even more involved clutch set up procedure.

voicey said:

I've spoken to Paul a couple of times today and am hopeful that I can get to see the car at some point. (Obviously) I've been giving this a lot of thought and the only way I can think of adjusting the PIS mechanically is to move the magnet on the release bearing. This will alter the closed clutch position and thus the wear index and has a similar effect to moving the PIS.

I sincerely hope that this isn't what has happened.

Just to re-iterate - there is no way of adjusting the actual PIS value without a diagnostic tool. You can on very early 360's (with TCU 176552) but this was removed in early 2001. The Maserati TCUs do not have this function.

In fact, as this car is a later 4200 it may even have the DEIS functionality which has an even more involved clutch set up procedure.

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You seem knowledgable, im glued to this thread!

I'm all for innovation, and like I said before if they got a Kevlar clutch to work I will be personally buying it for the GS. The thing about the video that bothered me isn't that the car was running down the street, it's the take offs and shifts I didn't see or hear. Paul I don't want you to feel I'm a jerk. I'm really not. But I follow these cars like it's my life. I try to help anyone I can when I can. If you are up to it I am going to personally pay for Voicey to come see the car for you. It really would be worth it for me if I knew there was a more durable clutch I could install in my car or my customer's cars that bring them to me.

@Voicey if you could email me and let me know what your costs would be brother I would greatly appreciate it. I will Paypal you the money.

Sorry Voicey, you must of answered when I was typing..........I guess you are already getting the car then?

voicey said:

In fact, as this car is a later 4200 it may even have the DEIS functionality which has an even more involved clutch set up procedure.

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This brings me to the following, regarding gearbox ECU's.

The first generation 4200's used the CFC201F gearbox ECU hardware, and from 04 onwards the CFC231F gearbox ECU hardware was used.
This followed at the same time with the Ferrari 360 that used the same gearbox/cambiocorsa configuration, and the same gearbox ECU's.
As we know Ferrari's are much more common, and consequently more people have looked into the different gearbox ECU's.
From what I can make out the CFC201F and CFC231F are interchangeable, the difference being the 231 has double the EEPROM memory size of the 201. They certainly swop in the CFC231F instead of a CFC201F on 360's, straight plugin swop apparently so they can have a later gearbox map on an early car.
Ferrari owners actually buy our 'cheaper' second hand Maserati 231 gearbox ecu's, being the same hardware, to flash on the Challenge Stradale gearbox map!
So, I can't see why the early first generation 4200's, especially if flashed to the no return softer map, can't be exchanged for the later 231 hardware, with the latest GS map...???

Watching this thread with interest given the Spyder is booked in for a clutch change in August.

Is there anyway of identifying which gearbox hardware and / or software is installed (Mat do you know what mine has? PM if you want). I like the current setup and would be reluctant to lose the way it is setup.

ChrisQP09 said:

You seem knowledgable, im glued to this thread!

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He is. Really

C

Hi guys, sorry for not replying soon but my daughter who lives in spain come home last night.
Just so you know my original clutch is the only clutch Ive got, it was sent to MD while the car was sat on the ramp for a week. This can be confirmed by MD if you'd like to check.

So there is 100% no BS going on here. Cos my daughter was coming home I only had a small time frame to get the car to pro speed exhausts which is where the car is now.
I've done about 30 miles first 5 running in as requested by Andy @ MD and the rest plodding revving to around 5-6 k. I'm not wrecking my clutch just to see if it works perfectly when hot.

Voicey is 100% correct and I've spoken to him a few times as like Ive said, originally it didn't work.
Yes what I'm telling u about my mechanic sounds dodgy and its actually bothering me so much so that I might still pay for voicey to look at it (once run in so he can get it hot enough etc).

I will find out what he's done even if I have to beat it out of him, I'm telling him I need to know and he's saying it's tricks of the trade and laughs (thinking he's being funny)... I understand the importance for everyone else in the future but I can honestly say it works and SO FAR it's working fine.

I do live in Cardiff remember and most of you are London based. But I'm happy for anyone local or passing to plug the car in. My orginal reg no is FJ06 AXD....if you guys know the way to find out what box and software I'm running. But I've been told by a few people, its not the setting up that makes it work it's the way the clutch is built regarding matching pressure differences from stock to Kevlar

Cool, Paul. Really hope this is working out for you. MD are Mad Dog?

C

Yes CatmanV2 - Mad Dog clutches and Voicey are both London based so you guys have everything you need in the same area