New Kevlar Clutch
- Thread starter Paul1982
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CatmanV2
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Thanks, Matt
The other suggestion by Craig was that the springs are the correct tension for the material other than kevlar. I am not an expert, but that makes a certain amount of sense if the friction is different. In a manual car, you'd just adjust. Rather trickier for the CC
C
The other suggestion by Craig was that the springs are the correct tension for the material other than kevlar. I am not an expert, but that makes a certain amount of sense if the friction is different. In a manual car, you'd just adjust. Rather trickier for the CC
C
CatmanV2
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Interesting. I wonder how the hydraulics will take that. Has this been done before, Paul?
Finger in the air that sounds like either a new pressure sensor, or a reprogramming of the TCU. Increased wear on the F1 pump, seals and so forth. Possibly even *more* wear on the F1 pump if your leakdown is bit high as it's going to leak faster at higher pressure, meaning more pump running to keep it up. And I assume that the seals will fail faster.
Also, that's going to impact the solenoid and actuation of the shift (Caveat: I'm assuming that the clutch and the rest of the system all share the same hydraulics, which I believe is correct)
C
As you mentioned above, only a few people from the US have tried it, sadly with negative results.
It is indeed a challenge to see another member trying a kevlar clutch, apart from the known pega solution.
So please Paul, keep us updated about how the car feels after installing.
It is indeed a challenge to see another member trying a kevlar clutch, apart from the known pega solution.
So please Paul, keep us updated about how the car feels after installing.
CatmanV2
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CraigWaterman11
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I will be watching this thread with anticipation as well.
Though Chris correctly brought up the clutch springs themselves, and the give for a harder friction material. I think you have to deal with the programming in the TCU and the way it reacts to whatever material the clutch is made from. So far just with regular rebuilt clutches from like OEM materials two different people had no reverse in their cars whatsoever. They had all the other gears but no reverse and that was after all the trial and error to get it to that point. I would love for this to work in kevlar. I mean if I knew I had a Kevlar clutch and it functioned properly I would put my car hard into the corners every time I had the opportunity. But, I think you'd have a better chance to make it work in a three pedal car than the F1.
However, I'm all for innovation for our cars. It would be great for a break through in Kevlar. Maybe I mis-read the beginning of this thread. The re-manufacturer of the clutch stated they had great results in all the other cars correct? Does that mean they are putting a guarantee on the Kevlar clutch and it working in our cars? For me that's where the rubber meets the road. If you are sure it will work, warranty it. I will personally buy it. Let's just keep it honest here because we are all brothers in Maserati. If someone knows so very much about clutches and them working in our cars they will warranty it. I've bought used parts from suppliers that tell me "we warranty parts and labor if it fails". They stick behind what they sell because that's what people do when they believe in their products.
Because the long and short of it is this. You are dropping the gear box, torque tube and bell housing. You are eating those labor costs. That's not even factoring in whether you have to pay to have someone attempt to set up the clutch with a scan tool after it's installed. Thankfully I have one now, but I cannot even begin to imagine what the costs would be if you had someone working night and day to try and get the clutch to work in the car. Again though, if you guys run across any company guaranteeing their product lets get one in my car lets put the company through the grinder. I have google glass merely to record videos as if people were doing it with me. We can video document all of it. What I don't get in a lot of this is when I hear people doing these other than OEM clutches why it's done with the customer proving the companies product and not the other way around with a guarantee. I don't mind the OEM mileage on a clutch personally because I know it goes in and I know I can enjoy the car after it's done for many years.
Anyway it's late these are just my thoughts......
Though Chris correctly brought up the clutch springs themselves, and the give for a harder friction material. I think you have to deal with the programming in the TCU and the way it reacts to whatever material the clutch is made from. So far just with regular rebuilt clutches from like OEM materials two different people had no reverse in their cars whatsoever. They had all the other gears but no reverse and that was after all the trial and error to get it to that point. I would love for this to work in kevlar. I mean if I knew I had a Kevlar clutch and it functioned properly I would put my car hard into the corners every time I had the opportunity. But, I think you'd have a better chance to make it work in a three pedal car than the F1.
However, I'm all for innovation for our cars. It would be great for a break through in Kevlar. Maybe I mis-read the beginning of this thread. The re-manufacturer of the clutch stated they had great results in all the other cars correct? Does that mean they are putting a guarantee on the Kevlar clutch and it working in our cars? For me that's where the rubber meets the road. If you are sure it will work, warranty it. I will personally buy it. Let's just keep it honest here because we are all brothers in Maserati. If someone knows so very much about clutches and them working in our cars they will warranty it. I've bought used parts from suppliers that tell me "we warranty parts and labor if it fails". They stick behind what they sell because that's what people do when they believe in their products.
Because the long and short of it is this. You are dropping the gear box, torque tube and bell housing. You are eating those labor costs. That's not even factoring in whether you have to pay to have someone attempt to set up the clutch with a scan tool after it's installed. Thankfully I have one now, but I cannot even begin to imagine what the costs would be if you had someone working night and day to try and get the clutch to work in the car. Again though, if you guys run across any company guaranteeing their product lets get one in my car lets put the company through the grinder. I have google glass merely to record videos as if people were doing it with me. We can video document all of it. What I don't get in a lot of this is when I hear people doing these other than OEM clutches why it's done with the customer proving the companies product and not the other way around with a guarantee. I don't mind the OEM mileage on a clutch personally because I know it goes in and I know I can enjoy the car after it's done for many years.
Anyway it's late these are just my thoughts......
zagatoes30
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IT is good there are people prepared to innovate and try things, wish you all the best and hope it works out as that would open up an option for others. Fingers crossed, keep us updated
Andy
Andy
Paul1982
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Ok clutch was fitted an hour ago.... As expected the kiss points are wrong and it stalls in first and reverse worse still my mates diagnostics doesn't allow him into the gearbox special functions lol so looking for the software to set it up now.
Did find this online (would love it if it worked on mine):
https://youtu.be/pcPzVMTTS5U
Will keep you updated
Did find this online (would love it if it worked on mine):
https://youtu.be/pcPzVMTTS5U
Will keep you updated
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Good luck, Paul. I've been watching this thread with the interest of a man who professes to understand little of what is discussed but would be vey pleased with a happy outcome.
CatmanV2
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mjheathcote
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Voicey, have you any experience of Kevlar clutches fitted to the robotised manual Ferrari 360?
CraigWaterman11
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I'm confused......did you install a clutch without having a scan tool to access the gearbox beforehand? You have to reset the clutch parameters, AND the kiss point so the NCR is updated with the new clutch parameters or it will be trying to engage the new clutch you just installed with the clutch wear parameters of the old clutch you just removed. Additionally, the Kiss point cannot be set right until the new clutch parameters have been entered.
I would sincerely consider the offer made by Aldous. I don't recommend many Mas/Ferrari Techs to many people. Let me re-phrase that in the last year I recommended one. For the UK, you probably will not hear me recommend another one other than Voicey. It's not just his skill level, it's the fact I know he won't stop until he's gotten it right for your car.
If nothing else maybe ask Voice if you're tech can just glean from him as Voice helps out. A lot of Techs now days don't want to learn. I've even personally seen a certified Ferrari tech try and pull a Mas., on a flat bed tow truck from the jack mounts and rip them off. This is how not to learn.