MR SNUGGLES GOES TO FUNKYTOWN or VLADIMIR'S SPECIAL sex change OPERATION

[Wattie]

IMHO, have to say my sceptical brain has kicked in looking at this tweet. My German is pretty poor but three things don’t seem quite ‘right’ about this:

1. The news report appears to be about captured Russian vehicles and munitions, with the first vehicle with a great big ‘Z’ on it
2. Looking at the other tweets of the poster ‘LogKa’, it’s clear that they are a pro-Russian individual or propagandist
3. I tried to Google other, corroborating sources of this claim and just got InfoWars and Russia Today

I am not naive enough to believe that there aren’t elements within Ukraine that have undesirable roots and ideologies, but IMHO this tweet doesn’t seem compelling at any level to me.

Well known. This is from years back when the “regime change “ was instigated.

Azov fighters are Ukraine's greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat | Ukraine | The Guardian

<p>The battalion's far-right volunteers' desire to 'bring the fight to Kiev' is a danger to post-conflict stability</p>

amp.theguardian.com

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

IMHO, have to say my sceptical brain has kicked in looking at this tweet. My German is pretty poor but three things don’t seem quite ‘right’ about this:

1. The news report appears to be about captured Russian vehicles and munitions, with the first vehicle with a great big ‘Z’ on it
2. Looking at the other tweets of the poster ‘LogKa’, it’s clear that they are a pro-Russian individual or propagandist
3. I tried to Google other, corroborating sources of this claim and just got InfoWars and Russia Today

I am not naive enough to believe that there aren’t elements within Ukraine that have undesirable roots and ideologies, but IMHO this tweet doesn’t seem compelling at any level to me.

As they used to say in Fleet Street (remember that?) Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

 

[D Walker]

I was musing in the car today.
I wonder if Nikita Mazipan’s dreams really have been taken away now.

 

[DLax69]

I was musing in the car today.
I wonder if Nikita Mazipan’s dreams really have been taken away now.

Seems like he's doubled down on his pro-RUS sentiments...? Or is there "new" news?

 

[D Walker]

Seems like he's doubled down on his pro-RUS sentiments...? Or is there "new" news?

Don’t know. Wondered if he’d be drafted
Or of course. Volunteer.
The “reports” are the Chechnyans have bust their quota with volunteers who can’t wait to
Get to the front.

 

[DLax69]

Don’t know. Wondered if he’d be drafted
Or of course. Volunteer.
The “reports” are the Chechnyans have bust their quota with volunteers who can’t wait to
Get to the front.

Had not heard that about the Chechens...

You know, also makes me wonder about the fate of the arrested protesters...

 

[D Walker]

Had not heard that about the Chechens...

You know, also makes me wonder about the fate of the arrested protesters...

Was an English bloke on a pro Russian you tube channel about the Chechens. Lives in Russia and agrees with everything going on.
I think the protesters are being given the choice. Sign your draft and go or……. Fill in the blanks.

 

[DLax69]

Was an English bloke on a pro Russian you tube channel about the Chechens. Lives in Russia and agrees with everything going on.
I think the protesters are being given the choice. Sign your draft and go or……. Fill in the blanks.

My thoughts precisely. The arrests are actually a shadow draft.

Interesting on the YouTubers. That place is pretty scary. ****, the entire internet (save this forum and maybe one or two other options) is pretty scary.

Of course, I suppose we have our moments here, too...

 

[midlifecrisis]

300,000 read 1.2 million.
The vast majority of draftees are from the east of russia not the precious areas (or should I say more enlightened) of Moscow or St Petersburg.

I cannot see how they are going to get 300,000 (or 1.2m) people through military training quickly.

To put this into context, when I joined the RAF 90-100 recruits when through 6 weeks of basic training every week. That took raw civilians and made them into (semi-)military personnel able to handle and shoot a rifle safely without hurting themsleves or anyone else friendly, it included a very basic infantry exercise. I'm sure @D Walker or @UlstermanAbroad can enlighten us on how many when through 'proper' recruit training, but I'd imagine it would take two months at least and only in batches 100 at a time. If you had 20 recruit training establishments across russia, that is 2,000 troops per week in 8 weeks time. Now some are old lags, reservists but even so they would be poorly prepapred and obviously poorly equipped. I can imagine an 'Enemy at the Gates' situation, one rifle between two and if you retreat, the Commissar Brigade will shoot you as a deserter.*

*They are report of this happening. Retreating troops being shot at by other russian troops. Scary,

 

[Wattie]

I was musing in the car today.
I wonder if Nikita Mazipan’s dreams really have been taken away now.

Mazipan.
Bit like marmite.
Personally I love it.

 

[DLax69]

300,000 read 1.2 million.
The vast majority of draftees are from the east of russia not the precious areas (or should I say more enlightened) of Moscow or St Petersburg.

I cannot see how they are going to get 300,000 (or 1.2m) people through military training quickly.

To put this into context, when I joined the RAF 90-100 recruits when through 6 weeks of basic training every week. That took raw civilians and made them into (semi-)military personnel able to handle and shoot a rifle safely without hurting themsleves or anyone else friendly, it included a very basic infantry exercise. I'm sure @D Walker or @UlstermanAbroad can enlighten us on how many when through 'proper' recruit training, but I'd imagine it would take two months at least and only in batches 100 at a time. If you had 20 recruit training establishments across russia, that is 2,000 troops per week in 8 weeks time. Now some are old lags, reservists but even so they would be poorly prepapred and obviously poorly equipped. I can imagine an 'Enemy at the Gates' situation, one rifle between two and if you retreat, the Commissar Brigade will shoot you as a deserter.*

*They are report of this happening. Retreating troops being shot at by other russian troops. Scary,

If you don't even have a rifle to issue, the "training" may not matter.

Basic training here would have 10 or so companies of, say, 80 going through concurrently...for eight weeks...rolling, as you are trying to keep pace with the numbers who are retiring or exiting or f'ing up or dying. And the dying part was probably the smallest of those cohorts.

Another aspect is the difference in mindset between conscriptee and volunteer.

If UKR can maintain discipline and not do something that makes the broader RUS populace feel like they are at risk from an incursion, then perhaps the real, internal threat(s) will be perceived by greater and greater numbers...

 

[D Walker]

300,000 read 1.2 million.
The vast majority of draftees are from the east of russia not the precious areas (or should I say more enlightened) of Moscow or St Petersburg.

I cannot see how they are going to get 300,000 (or 1.2m) people through military training quickly.

To put this into context, when I joined the RAF 90-100 recruits when through 6 weeks of basic training every week. That took raw civilians and made them into (semi-)military personnel able to handle and shoot a rifle safely without hurting themsleves or anyone else friendly, it included a very basic infantry exercise. I'm sure @D Walker or @UlstermanAbroad can enlighten us on how many when through 'proper' recruit training, but I'd imagine it would take two months at least and only in batches 100 at a time. If you had 20 recruit training establishments across russia, that is 2,000 troops per week in 8 weeks time. Now some are old lags, reservists but even so they would be poorly prepapred and obviously poorly equipped. I can imagine an 'Enemy at the Gates' situation, one rifle between two and if you retreat, the Commissar Brigade will shoot you as a deserter.*

*They are report of this happening. Retreating troops being shot at by other russian troops. Scary,

When I went through basic training in 1986 ( how long) it had just dropped from 10 weeks to 8 weeks to become a trained soldier. Bear in mind I was in an engineering corps. So basically the basic of infantry training. I believe “proper” infantry training at the time was 16-20 wks depending on whether you were normal infantry or guards. I think the guards did longer because of ceremonial duties but could be completely wrong.
I will caveat I never ever felt like a “real” soldier but in Bosnia in contact the drills came just like I’d been taught.

 

[midlifecrisis]

When I went through basic training in 1986 ( how long) it had just dropped from 10 weeks to 8 weeks to become a trained soldier. Bear in mind I was in an engineering corps. So basically the basic of infantry training. I believe “proper” infantry training at the time was 16-20 wks depending on whether you were normal infantry or guards. I think the guards did longer because of ceremonial duties but could be completely wrong.
I will caveat I never ever felt like a “real” soldier but in Bosnia in contact the drills came just like I’d been taught.

Which underlines my point.
Russia raising an army of 300,000 cannot possibly be trained for what they are going to receive.

300,000 body bags and a load of widows and orphans.

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

I'll give you an interesting contrast.
I've heard it from various reputable sources. Too many and too disparate for it not to be true. Or, to be very very likely to be true. That the Russians are putting conscripts through one week of, what I can't imagine. Basic handling of the AK47. That's one week, from civilian to front line.

In contrast, the British Army does basic training (for ordinary soldiers) in phases.
Phase 1 - 12 weeks basic and common to all branches
Phase 2 - from 2.5 wks for infantry to 53 wks for REME (Engineers)
Phase 3 - Specialist skills and promotion courses. Vary in length.
You do the maths.
Putin is recruiting from prisons (as I mentioned previously) and from the furthest
and most scattered provinces / oblasts in Russia. These 'troops' almost certainly won't be told where they're going and why. Or, they'll be told one version of Putin's fictional story.

What is really significant this week, is the sham referendum happening in the Donbas (I think) The predominantly ethnic Russian parts of Eastern Ukraine.
The referendum is designed to legitimise the Russian annexation of territory seized so far.
When the referendum results show an overwhelming choice of becoming part of Russia.
Putin will declare these areas sovereign Russian territory. And, crucially, an attack on these areas
will be treated as an attack on Russia directly. Putin is effectively upping the stakes. I imagine that
once he does this. He'll declare the 'special sex change operation' a success and the 'cessation of
combat operations' in a photo op similar to the one Dubya did.

The Ukrainians then face a choice. Do they accept whatever gains in territory their counter offensive has
delivered. And fast track their NATO and EU accession. Or, do they keep fighting and try to recapture all the territory the Russians have taken. Not all Russian troops are regarded as sketchy by NATO. Some units, perhaps paratroops, may give the Ukrainians a much harder time. The nearer the Ukrainians get to the old Russian border.

I've heard the Ukrainians anger towards the Russians described by reputable media who've visited the country this month, as 'white hot'. Not only because of the invasion. But, because at the outset Putin declared that Ukraine had no right to exist. Because of the many, many instances of war crimes in Russian held territory. And no doubt for many other reasons too.

If I was to bet. I'd bet that the Ukrainians will only accept full restoration of their territorial integrity, pre 2014.
I'd also bet that even if Putin declares that Eastern Ukraine has voted to join Russia and is now de facto Russian territory, NATO will not stop training and supplying the Ukrainians. Putin would then have put himself into a corner.
He'd have to defend 'Russia' by all means possible. Or be swept aside. The Russians are hyper sensitive to any threat of invasion. You can't really blame them for that, considering the German offensives in WW2 that did get as far as the Moscow suburbs, before being turned back and the complete destruction of everything West of Moscow by both sides adopting a scorched earth policy during their respective retreats.

The Ukrainians have the Russians on the back foot. Nominally. However, for Putin this is all about Putin. If Russia was seen to fail, domestically and internationally, I suspect that Putin would either succumb to a sudden illness or be replaced and disappear.

 

[D Walker]

I'll give you an interesting contrast.
I've heard it from various reputable sources. Too many and too disparate for it not to be true. Or, to be very very likely to be true. That the Russians are putting conscripts through one week of, what I can't imagine. Basic handling of the AK47. That's one week, from civilian to front line.

In contrast, the British Army does basic training (for ordinary soldiers) in phases.
Phase 1 - 12 weeks basic and common to all branches
Phase 2 - from 2.5 wks for infantry to 53 wks for REME (Engineers)
Phase 3 - Specialist skills and promotion courses. Vary in length.
You do the maths.
Putin is recruiting from prisons (as I mentioned previously) and from the furthest
and most scattered provinces / oblasts in Russia. These 'troops' almost certainly won't be told where they're going and why. Or, they'll be told one version of Putin's fictional story.

What is really significant this week, is the sham referendum happening in the Donbas (I think) The predominantly ethnic Russian parts of Eastern Ukraine.
The referendum is designed to legitimise the Russian annexation of territory seized so far.
When the referendum results show an overwhelming choice of becoming part of Russia.
Putin will declare these areas sovereign Russian territory. And, crucially, an attack on these areas
will be treated as an attack on Russia directly. Putin is effectively upping the stakes. I imagine that
once he does this. He'll declare the 'special sex change operation' a success and the 'cessation of
combat operations' in a photo op similar to the one Dubya did.

The Ukrainians then face a choice. Do they accept whatever gains in territory their counter offensive has
delivered. And fast track their NATO and EU accession. Or, do they keep fighting and try to recapture all the territory the Russians have taken. Not all Russian troops are regarded as sketchy by NATO. Some units, perhaps paratroops, may give the Ukrainians a much harder time. The nearer the Ukrainians get to the old Russian border.

I've heard the Ukrainians anger towards the Russians described by reputable media who've visited the country this month, as 'white hot'. Not only because of the invasion. But, because at the outset Putin declared that Ukraine had no right to exist. Because of the many, many instances of war crimes in Russian held territory. And no doubt for many other reasons too.

If I was to bet. I'd bet that the Ukrainians will only accept full restoration of their territorial integrity, pre 2014.
I'd also bet that even if Putin declares that Eastern Ukraine has voted to join Russia and is now de facto Russian territory, NATO will not stop training and supplying the Ukrainians. Putin would then have put himself into a corner.
He'd have to defend 'Russia' by all means possible. Or be swept aside. The Russians are hyper sensitive to any threat of invasion. You can't really blame them for that, considering the German offensives in WW2 that did get as far as the Moscow suburbs, before being turned back and the complete destruction of everything West of Moscow by both sides adopting a scorched earth policy during their respective retreats.

The Ukrainians have the Russians on the back foot. Nominally. However, for Putin this is all about Putin. If Russia was seen to fail, domestically and internationally, I suspect that Putin would either succumb to a sudden illness or be replaced and disappear.

53 weeks for REME. I’m totally out of the loop. My course which was the longest at the time was nearly 14 months. Followed by a class 1
Course of 8 months 2-3 years after basic.
But then my trade has gone to be replaced by a generic Electronics trade I believe.
Just read your post again. If they’re receiving 1 weeks training then Putin is basically condemning those poor souls. They’re going into battle against an already battle proven and highly motivated adversary.
so, so sad and a waste.

 

[UlstermanAbroad]

53 weeks for REME. I’m totally out of the loop. My course which was the longest at the time was nearly 14 months. Followed by a class 1
Course of 8 months 2-3 years after basic.
But then my trade has gone to be replaced by a generic Electronics trade I believe.
Just read your post again. If they’re receiving 1 weeks training then Putin is basically condemning those poor souls. They’re going into battle against an already battle proven and highly motivated adversary.
so, so sad and a waste.

I'm generalising out of necessity. Phase 3 specialist training may bring it up to something that you're familiar with mate.

The whole thing is becoming more bizarre as time goes on. If that were possible.
If you read about the German siege of Moscow. Stalin did exactly what Putin is doing
now. Except that in WW2, Russia only had a rifle for every several men. So, you all
advanced into the enemy and picked up a rifle when the man in front of you was shot
and/or killed. Behind each advancing Russian small unit, were NKVD troops (think MPs) with
squad served machine guns. If you turned and attempted to run away, the NKVD troops
were there to cut you down. And they did. To tens of thousands in different battles.
Those conscripts also only received a week's training if they were lucky and a uniform and
boots if they had something to trade. In many cases old bloody uniforms were stripped
from the dead and issued to new recruits.
I can see Putin resorting to the same tactics, because once these one week conscripts
face the first artillery / mortar prep and then infantry attack, they will run. No question.

Mothers of conscripts have been protesting for months in small groups here and there.
I suspect and Putin must be worried that their protests will grow and the phone clips of
mothers being beaten and arrested by Putin's riot police, will bring others out onto the
streets. If that keeps escalating. That may be one end game.

I travelled through various Eastern Bloc countries during the Cold War, but never Russia.
So, I just don't know the psyche enough to understand what pushes their buttons most.
I know, because of history, that your average Russian will defend The Motherland (Rodina)
to the death, which is maybe why Putin initially claimed that Ukraine attacked Russia.
I imagine that that fiction must have long unravelled by now. But how quickly that might
translate into general civil disobedience, I have no idea.

To echo more historical events. It was reported on CNN that Putin is now directing the war
himself, just the same as Stalin and Hitler did and as most dictators eventually tend to do.
So, the rift between Putin and his Generals must be a chasm. If it wasn't already.
This shows that Putin is content to rely only on his power base within the FSB / security
services to control the country. High stakes poker.

 

[D Walker]

Yep. I agree with all you have said. I think we both know. Anyone with 1 weeks training will
Probably take flight rather than turn and face and try to win the fire fight. I honestly despair for all those people who really have no idea what they’re heading towards.

 

[midlifecrisis]

We had only just got our khaki gear after one week of training, oh and PT gear for the usual beastings. We didn't get blue stuff till week 4 although Number 1s were assigned to us but tailored later in the course . After 6 weeks at RAF Swinderby (now closed) I went to RAF Locking (now closed) for a 72 week course . That was a hard life, HNC course in half the time and Weston-Super-mare in a £2 taxi ride away. Passed out as a qualified alcoholic with a sideline of electronics..

 

[fphil]

Shoigu gave some details
Interview of the Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation General of the Army Sergei Shoigu - YouTube

 

[D Walker]

We had only just got our khaki gear after one week of training, oh and PT gear for the usual beastings. We didn't get blue stuff till week 4 although Number 1s were assigned to us but tailored later in the course . After 6 weeks at RAF Swinderby (now closed) I went to RAF Locking (now closed) for a 72 week course . That was a hard life, HNC course in half the time and Weston-Super-mare in a £2 taxi ride away. Passed out as a qualified alcoholic with a sideline of electronics..

Yep. Similar to us. Ours wa a split ONC /HNC. Ws only years later when I went to a college to convert to civvy quals the guy said to me do to teach. Apparently I’m quiet clever. ****** my youth away.