Meanwhile. On the Ukrainian border.

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Wattie

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Whilst it hasn’t been declared, the “West” is basically now at war with Russia via its economic /financial sanctions and military equipment assistance.
It may as well have guns on the ground.
Putins reaction confirms he feels this way.

It’s becoming incredibly dangerous for global consequences.
 
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Dynamo Kiev Football Team... apparently, if true very sobering while I watch the carabao cup final. View attachment 97211
Yes. The guys are looking very Gucci with their Heckler & Koch G30 assault rifles.
However, they haven't really thought it through.
The humble AK47 has twice the stopping power of the H&K and will take much more abuse.
More importantly though. They will be just about the only combatants in Ukraine using NATO 5.56 ammunition.
Everybody else will be using 7.62 rounds.
Amateurs take several times the number of rounds to put down a target. Which is why they tend to be the first
to run out of ammunition.
Personally, I wouldn't be putting any money on the Dynamo Kiev boys surviving this one :p
 

outrun

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That'll be an American one, the British have E3-D at the top secret RAF Waddington air base between the A15 and A607 just south of Lincoln.

“- Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar.
  • Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back?
  • Ted Striker: I can't tell you that. It's classified.”
 

GeoffCapes

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Yes. The guys are looking very Gucci with their Heckler & Koch G30 assault rifles.
However, they haven't really thought it through.
The humble AK47 has twice the stopping power of the H&K and will take much more abuse.
More importantly though. They will be just about the only combatants in Ukraine using NATO 5.56 ammunition.
Everybody else will be using 7.62 rounds.
Amateurs take several times the number of rounds to put down a target. Which is why they tend to be the first
to run out of ammunition.
Personally, I wouldn't be putting any money on the Dynamo Kiev boys surviving this one :p

H&K G30's are far more accurate than AK's though. They might be able to take someone out before they bite the dust. With an AK in untrained hands you're more likely to kill yourself than anyone else. Especially in full auto. The kick on them is ridiculous!
 
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Accuracy is moot. When you run out of ammunition.
High end kit is wasted on amateurs. They're more likely to abuse it and get stoppages etc.
Nobody but snipers, hit much over fifty yards. Close up what you want is stopping power
and reliability and most of all, endless ammo.
Plus you don't want to stand out. When the Russians see or hear an odd weapon being used,
they're gonna think it's some rich kid and / or foreigner playing soldiers and try especially hard to kill him.
Look at the TV clips of the fighting taking place now. Nearly all of it is FIBUA. Fighting in built up areas.
That means short distances and when most guys are wearing body armour, it's all obout stopping
power and penetration.
 

GeoffCapes

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Accuracy is moot. When you run out of ammunition.
High end kit is wasted on amateurs. They're more likely to abuse it and get stoppages etc.
Nobody but snipers, hit much over fifty yards. Close up what you want is stopping power
and reliability and most of all, endless ammo.
Plus you don't want to stand out. When the Russians see or hear an odd weapon being used,
they're gonna think it's some rich kid and / or foreigner playing soldiers and try especially hard to kill him.
Look at the TV clips of the fighting taking place now. Nearly all of it is FIBUA. Fighting in built up areas.
That means short distances and when most guys are wearing body armour, it's all obout stopping
power and penetration.

True, but those who are inexperienced at firing an AK will be a danger to themselves will fire most of the rounds into the air!

Bit like me when I fired one in Vegas! :f7::f7::f7:

The Uzi on the other hand. What a bit of kit that is!
 

GeoffCapes

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Has anyone actually verified that that is the football team in question?

Just curious

C

It would stand to reason that it is the team as most Ukrainian football team players have joined up (so to speak) and a lot of Ukrainian sportsmen around the world have gone back to join.
Obviously the Klitschko brothers are retired from boxing but Oleksandr Usyk and Vasiliy Lomachenko have now both gone how to fight.

Ukrainians are clearly very patriotic. Makes you wonder how many of the sportsmen in our country from the 'Snowflake generation' would do the same if the UK was under a similar attack?
 

midlifecrisis

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It would stand to reason that it is the team as most Ukrainian football team players have joined up (so to speak) and a lot of Ukrainian sportsmen around the world have gone back to join.
Obviously the Klitschko brothers are retired from boxing but Oleksandr Usyk and Vasiliy Lomachenko have now both gone how to fight.

Ukrainians are clearly very patriotic. Makes you wonder how many of the sportsmen in our country from the 'Snowflake generation' would do the same if the UK was under a similar attack?
I don't get this 'snowflake' generation slur....when did you join up?
 
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True, but those who are inexperienced at firing an AK will be a danger to themselves will fire most of the rounds into the air!

Bit like me when I fired one in Vegas! :f7::f7::f7:

The Uzi on the other hand. What a bit of kit that is!
Amateurs on vacation, firing on auto, send most of their rounds into the air. The guys manning the range,
probably let you do it, for their amusement.

I can tell you how the reserves are being trained. Most of the ones I've seen interviewed, all say the same thing.
That they've had a week or two of weapons and very basic, small unit tactics training.
Even the latest recruits, just picking up weapons and trotting off to the front, will know the most basic concepts.

You almost never use full auto. All soldiers in contact, tend to aim high. No matter what weapon they have.
I would slap the **** out of recruits to emphasise my points. In this situation only, because you don't have the luxury of time. I would tell them that I'd shoot them myself, if I see them breaking the cardinal rules.
Like. Only aim at what you want to kill. Only put your finger on the trigger, when you want to fire a round.
After every engagement, clean your rifle before anything else. There's several others. Don't want to send everyone to sleep.
Recruits have to be more scared of their immediate leaders, than the enemy. Until they can do their skills and drills instinctively.
Single or three shot bursts are much easier to control. One in five / three rounds will be tracer, so you can see where your rounds are going, relative to the target.
The joy of the AK is ....it is simple. Simple to maintain. Simple to use. Children can and do use it. Do you think they complain about the recoil? Do you think that they very quickly learn to grip it, so that rounds aren't going into the stratosphere?

In a war like this. Where most of your 'army' are green volunteers. In every way that matters, the AK is the better choice of weapon. By a country mile.
 

P5Nij

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The overall situation is nothing less than feckin' dire, but I keep hearing or reading about little pockets of heartwarming news - like unarmed Ukrainians walking up to Russian soldiers and tanks giving them the verbals which takes some balls, and some of those tank crews believing they were just on an exercise, running out of fuel and not even knowing they've crossed the border into Ukraine. Putin didn't bank on any strong resistance and probably thought it would be a walkover within two or three days.
 

Felonious Crud

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The overall situation is nothing less than feckin' dire, but I keep hearing or reading about little pockets of heartwarming news - like unarmed Ukrainians walking up to Russian soldiers and tanks giving them the verbals which takes some balls, and some of those tank crews believing they were just on an exercise, running out of fuel and not even knowing they've crossed the border into Ukraine. Putin didn't bank on any strong resistance and probably thought it would be a walkover within two or three days.
The concern now is, what will he do next? The west is united in condemnation, the sanctions are hitting hard and so far he hasn't made the progress he might have believed he would make. His best friend, Belarus, will enter the war, of that we can be certain, but what is Putin's next move as his own country and much of his support is weakened.
 

FIFTY

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I don't get this 'snowflake' generation slur....when did you join up?

It is a pretty vague slur against Millenials often used unbewittingly by Millenials to describe other Millenials.

After various terrorist attacks in this country the youth which are being slated here are insensed to violence and would be a lot more willing to take arms than you would expect.
 

Scaf

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Ukrainians are clearly very patriotic. Makes you wonder how many of the sportsmen in our country from the 'Snowflake generation' would do the same if the UK was under a similar attack?

I have been asking myself what I would be doing if put in the same position, can’t see myself heading to the frontline, but would like to thing I would arm myself and protect my family and stand between them and imminent danger / threat.
 
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