MC Shift – What type of gearbox is it really?

[c4sman]

Thought a launch on the MC Autoshift was TC off sports mode on, and stamp on it from stationary (no holding the brake). I’ve done sports mode and stamp but never tried it with TC off. Seemed to go well enough so never bothered!

 

[Scaf]

fun fact: you can bump start a MC Shift car, ignition on, good push and a couple of right paddle clicks and off she goes. Ask me how I know, some other time.

Funnily enough I saw that in the manual yesterday when I was looking for the “select neutral “ bit.

 

[stikey]

Don t know what one i had in the strad yesterday in the outside lane hoofing it on the motorway yesterday to the nec when it went to N and said visit main dealer then coasted over to hard shoulder
off on off on off on off then bingo 1 gear away it went still banging around in my head all day today

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Thought a launch on the MC Autoshift was TC off sports mode on, and stamp on it from stationary (no holding the brake). I’ve done sports mode and stamp but never tried it with TC off. Seemed to go well enough so never bothered!

The "stoplight GrandPrix", if that is what you want to conduct, then the automatic GT is overwhelmingly the choice for you (IMHO). I say this because the MC Shift car, well the dual-disk clutch is smallish in diameter, and aggressive starts take their toll on this very expensive to change clutch car. Generally, European exotics target suburban and higher speeds performance (I believe)... and used judiciously in this manner, well, reasonable clutch life can be extracted from the car.

 

[CatmanV2]

I say this because the MC Shift car, well the dual-disk clutch

I thought it was only a single disc?

C

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I thought it was only a single disc?

C

It comprises two disks, I believe. If you view the thickness of the so-called "clutch cover" which has the diaphragm fingers, there is also a driven disk in there, with two clutch lining mounted disks either side of it. It's a really thick clutch cover. To maintain closeness to the ground mounting of the transaxle, with small diameter clutch disks, this is how they achieve enough sq inches of clutch lining. I could be wrong... but...

 

[CatmanV2]

It comprises two disks, I believe. If you view the thickness of the so-called "clutch cover" which has the diaphragm fingers, there is also a driven disk in there, with two clutch lining mounted disks either side of it. It's a really thick clutch cover. To maintain closeness to the ground mounting of the transaxle, with small diameter clutch disks, this is how they achieve enough sq inches of clutch lining. I could be wrong... but...

I'm more likely to be wrong!

C

 

[Zep]

I drive my car away from the lights often and the clutch on mine is fine and not wearing excessively.

I’ve heard no stories of Granturismo’s having clutches failing prematurely, which is what this thread is about anyway.

 

[conaero]

In the workshop from what I have witnessed, I tell owners the following:

Clutches on GT MCS start to miss gears in the late 30k’s miles.

They limp on to the mid 40k’s

The highest mileage clutch we have replaced was 52k miles and that was slipping.

We don’t see tang failure.

Every clutch we do we replace the clutch pack, flywheel, bearing, bellhousing bearing, pilot bearing and clutch and flywheel bolts and washers at a cost of £3,200 plus vat of which the labour is £800

Any premature issues are usually the clutch position sensor.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

In the workshop from what I have witnessed, I tell owners the following:

Clutches on GT MCS start to miss gears in the late 30k’s miles.

They limp on to the mid 40k’s

The highest mileage clutch we have replaced was 52k miles and that was slipping.

We don’t see tang failure.

Every clutch we do we replace the clutch pack, flywheel, bearing, bellhousing bearing, pilot bearing and clutch and flywheel bolts and washers at a cost of £3,200 plus vat of which the labour is £800

Any premature issues are usually the clutch position sensor.

Well, that's the gamut of parts in there (along with the position sensor); replacing that - all that - is exactly what I would do. Barring clutch abuse, considering that list of parts to be the expendable/wear parts, you can then get the mileages you mention, and can remain pretty confident that nothing internal to the bellhousing is faulting if a gearbox prb presents itself...

 

[conaero]

My Strad is on 34k and the clutch wear is only 47%, it must be the way I only pootle around….yeah, right!
TBF it’s a rural car so traffic wear is not an issue and much of the mileage is Euro touring so sat at 90 with the scenery a blur

 

[cheburator]

This I can never understand - I love the MC Box and Maserati that I will buy one day will be with the Graziano unit, but the relatively short clutch life is beyond my understanding. The BMW SMG II single plate clutch will easily see 90k + miles of mixed driving and is quicker, while the more comparable from torque/mass of car point of view SMG III as found in the V10 BMWs of the mid 2000s, which happens to be the fastest automated manual box, will easily see 50k between changes... The twin-plate manual clutch in the Porsche 928 will easily handle 500hp/ftlbs, it is controlled by one's left leg (imperfect) and would easily last 100k... Go figure...

 

[Scaf]

This I can never understand - I love the MC Box and Maserati that I will buy one day will be with the Graziano unit, but the relatively short clutch life is beyond my understanding. The BMW SMG II single plate clutch will easily see 90k + miles of mixed driving and is quicker, while the more comparable from torque/mass of car point of view SMG III as found in the V10 BMWs of the mid 2000s, which happens to be the fastest automated manual box, will easily see 50k between changes... The twin-plate manual clutch in the Porsche 928 will easily handle 500hp/ftlbs, it is controlled by one's left leg (imperfect) and would easily last 100k... Go figure...

I thought the MC Stradale 60ms gear change was the fastest out there ……. live and learn I guess.

 

[Zep]

SMG III as found in the V10 BMWs of the mid 2000s, which happens to be the fastest automated manual box

As I understand it, the fastest SMG shift is 65ms, with the Stradale at 60ms.

 

[cheburator]

As I understand it, the fastest SMG shift is 65ms, with the Stradale at 60ms.

599GTO 100ms
BMW M5 60ms

Bear in mind the SMGIII is specifically designed to be shifted sequentially, the path of the gearshifts is totally different to the conventional H-pattern box as found in the F/M cars...

This is all academic - even if the difference is 60 to 65ms, the fact is that my E61 M5 Touring had 70% on its original clutch left at 52k miles, following Ring trips and life in SE London...

 

[Felonious Crud]

Well sort of....

The engine isn't (really, AFAIK) and the box is Graziano from memory. Which is a bit like saying that my Bentley (or Granturismo) had a Hyundai box

C

The robotised manual ‘box on my Vantage is also Graziano. The manual manual version is, er, identical. Just with a lever to wiggle instead of paddles.

 

[Felonious Crud]

(yes, I wanted a Ferrari but couldn't afford it....)

Remember that a Maserati is a Ferrari for people who don’t have ‘size issues’.

 

[Felonious Crud]

Remember that a Maserati is a Ferrari for people who don’t have ‘size issues’.

I guess you're caught in the middle, Brian, so to speak. Which sounds painful!

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

This I can never understand - I love the MC Box and Maserati that I will buy one day will be with the Graziano unit, but the relatively short clutch life is beyond my understanding. The BMW SMG II single plate clutch will easily see 90k + miles of mixed driving and is quicker, while the more comparable from torque/mass of car point of view SMG III as found in the V10 BMWs of the mid 2000s, which happens to be the fastest automated manual box, will easily see 50k between changes... The twin-plate manual clutch in the Porsche 928 will easily handle 500hp/ftlbs, it is controlled by one's left leg (imperfect) and would easily last 100k... Go figure...

I think it comes down, strangely, to clutch disk dia versus square inches of clutch lining. Me thinks the Valeo disks in the Maser and the F-cars are small dia... even though I believe they are twin disks. Dia. (or lack thereof) may be the dominant factor.

 

[cheburator]

I think it comes down, strangely, to clutch disk dia versus square inches of clutch lining. Me thinks the Valeo disks in the Maser and the F-cars are small dia... even though I believe they are twin disks. Dia. (or lack thereof) may be the dominant factor.

The SMGIII also runs Valero twin disc clutch with friction discs that are 228mm in diameter vs the M and F 225mm ones. The Porsche 928 runs a Sachs dual disc 225mm clutch with a single mass flywheel… Getrag/Williams getting one over MM/Ferrari?