Made in China

[lozcb]

Believe me guys, after 31 years of supporting UK military operations all over the world, our continuing dependency on China for the supply of so many requirements will ultimately be at our peril. China is tolerated in the west (up until now at least) but we should not forget that China has an agenda to become the No.1 economic and military super power in the world .....and seemingly at any cost considering their actions. Look at their military and territorial ambitions in the South China Seas and the much disputed Spratley islands. US military forces have already come close to conflict with China on several occasions in that region and frankly it is against this backdrop why the status quo cannot be allowed to continue. We have got to become less dependant and much more independant of China and its influence.
End of sermon..honest!!

I have spent the last 4 months working alongside The Sentry ( George Clooney ) and The Enough project , some of you may be aware of it and what they do and what there aim is , they invited me in an advisory capacity re exactly that , the way China circumvents or ignores the international rules and boundary's specifically in resource and mining . To be fair i have been in conflict over the last 4 years with 2 illegal chinese mining companies encroaching upon our licenced concessions , facilitated by the governors or 2 separate regions within South Sudan.

Being British and subject to all that the OECD has layed down in recent years ,we are 100% crystal clean which has a financial cost attached to it , the Chinese come in through a back door initially facilitated by the office of the first lady , and then they get forwarded on to various areas under the facilitation of various Govenors.

This is where it gets extremely tacky, to have an exploration licence means to have to basically make a contract via the Mining Ministry and agree to spend x amount whilst employing x amount of local people within x time limit , part of that contract internationaly means you are duty bound to report your findings at regular intervals, Now because of the warfare within South Sudan no bugger is stupid or cranky enough to work there , so their own trainee geologists wont work alongside me lol, so happily for last few years ive been spending x amount of money on exploation , sample and bulk testing programs in lets just say very dangeous conditions. obviously its all out in the bush and means 2-3 months permanently in the field at a time, each time followed shortly after by yet another Chinese mining company.

What i found out end of 2018 was that the Chinese have been bribing the minister of mining ,who has instructed the relevant departments to hand over our companies data and records to date , so they know exactly what i have spent good time money finding , coordinates and assumed reserves everything , Understand now why im a bit pissssed off with the Chinese, and the SS Mining dept, last 18months obviously i have started giving them false data reports.

Your getting the idea of what i have been up against ......................so its happening in virtually every sector and its so blatant

file:///C:/Users/lozcb/Desktop/UntappedUnprepared-TheSentry-April2020.pdf

 

[rockits]

There are clearly two sides to this and both in conflict seeing things from completely different angles. I am not talking about the people on here but the people out there.

There are those that relay on cheap and/or multiple purchases of the same thing for repeat and continual business. These are typically your govts, businesses and employees at these businesses. They all rely on this to keep the growth ponzi gravy train running along the rails to destination I have no idea.

Then you have the rest. If we raise prices and produce quality rather than quality I don't think medium to long term it damages anyone does it? If we change to model to focus on quality rather than quality the domino effect of benefit is immense. Massive benefits to make our finite resources last longer with massive benefits to air quality and environmental reductions in emissions/greenhouse gases. We don't ship as much stuff around the world, we don't spend as much of our valuable time purchasing stuff multiple times. There are various and multiple benefits. It really makes no sense to make and buy stuff twice or thrice or more. Unless you on the side that needs this to happen.

However many of the reasons the side that needs to benefit just don't stack up. We are doing it all for the wrong reasons. Nothing lasts forever I get that. However changing mindsets to repair/re-use rather the bin and re-purchase is a great starter. Great to see programs like the Repair Shop come onto prime TV channels/times is helping. As someone said earlier programs like The Apprentice can be quite damaging I feel as it is encouraging a get rich quick culture. Also when you look at the levels and quality of many of these numpties it isn't great. Many of these kids or not going to be the future of our business world.

I understand the benefits of Social Media but we have massive negative issues with Social Media too. Do the positives outweigh the negatives or do we have an equal measure of each?

This race to the bottom on price thus a race to the bottom on quality causes a multitude of issues. Instead of using better quality long lasting materials such as copper pipes in plumbing as previously mentioned we are using plastic. We know that plastic is not always the best product to use especially for applications with short disposable life. It might be a cheap option but the cost post purchase, use and disposal can be immense. We are finding this with single use plastics now. I still feel quality is the answer not quantity for a multitude and variety of reasons. We need to look at the whole end to end life of a product pre and post purchase/use.

It isn't always so cut and dry which is better. I just can't believe any of the information I have seen that details an EV or especially a Tesla is better for the environment and us all over running an older car that has already been produced. Especially when we could improve existing already produced vehicles through add on innovation to reduce emissions further.

For me the pressure and rate of change to things we can easily change is not big enough or fast enough. All single use non-recyclable packaging plastic or otherwise should be
banned within a very very short timeframe. One good thing that CV pandemic has shown us is how quick we can move to do things if we really want or need to or the political will also exists. We have done amazing things in very short timeframes around the world. Why does it take something like the CV to kick this into gear when it could be exercised and utilised at any point?

 

[MRichards]

It's not just the Chinese who cheat on delivery of orders for components. Our order for two containers of alloy pipe went completely off the rails in Russia. When the containers were delivered from Russia they were full of old newspapers,not a pipe to be seen. I blame the distributors for the cheap goods from China. The distributors make the largest profits from the items they trade so they gain by sourcing in China and selling here for the highest price they can negotiate. This was our experience.

And another thing. Pulled up at the lights behind a smallish SUV which had MG badges. What a disgraceful end for that "iconic" English car company !

 

[lozcb]

God how i wish the semtiment expessed on here thus far turns out to be a true representaion of joe public , not only within UK but the whole of the western alliance , Personally im still 150% convinced that Brexit must continue at as fast a rate as feasibly possible , with new alliances formed , Europe The US Canada Australia NZ the Commonwealth countries can force the change required , and our biggest lever is India , we get them on board and China will start to quake a little ..............................................surprisingly tonight India have their Airforce and Navy on high alert as China is flexing its muscles off the indian coast as i type ......................hold on tight guys its goung to be a rocky ride , and Trump true to form is doing some serious stick poking at China and the WHO ,

 

[midlifecrisis]

The Chinese have been ripping us off for years. Plessey, the now defunct radar, company produced a phenomonenal radar in the early 80's and sold over a 100 to the UK and worldwide markets. Many are still in use today, turning and burning after 36 years!
But they only sold one to China, which seems odd for a 60 mile range radar for a hilly country.

 

[MRichards]

I own a race car so I'm getting alloy welding done at a road tanker repair depot fairly often. The manager was showing me the electric drills they buy for about 16 squids,made in China and last about a year,then they are dumped. He reckons it's the cheapest alternative to the way I operate with my good old Bosch drills which will last a lifetime. The Bosch units were not cheap to buy but they can be repaired and maintained & surely over time it works out cheaper than buying crappy Chinese units every year.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Europe are insistent that all white goods and tools etc are repairable.

 

[Silvercat]

There are clearly two sides to this and both in conflict seeing things from completely different angles. I am not talking about the people on here but the people out there.

There are those that relay on cheap and/or multiple purchases of the same thing for repeat and continual business. These are typically your govts, businesses and employees at these businesses. They all rely on this to keep the growth ponzi gravy train running along the rails to destination I have no idea.

Then you have the rest. If we raise prices and produce quality rather than quality I don't think medium to long term it damages anyone does it? If we change to model to focus on quality rather than quality the domino effect of benefit is immense. Massive benefits to make our finite resources last longer with massive benefits to air quality and environmental reductions in emissions/greenhouse gases. We don't ship as much stuff around the world, we don't spend as much of our valuable time purchasing stuff multiple times. There are various and multiple benefits. It really makes no sense to make and buy stuff twice or thrice or more. Unless you on the side that needs this to happen.

However many of the reasons the side that needs to benefit just don't stack up. We are doing it all for the wrong reasons. Nothing lasts forever I get that. However changing mindsets to repair/re-use rather the bin and re-purchase is a great starter. Great to see programs like the Repair Shop come onto prime TV channels/times is helping. As someone said earlier programs like The Apprentice can be quite damaging I feel as it is encouraging a get rich quick culture. Also when you look at the levels and quality of many of these numpties it isn't great. Many of these kids or not going to be the future of our business world.

I understand the benefits of Social Media but we have massive negative issues with Social Media too. Do the positives outweigh the negatives or do we have an equal measure of each?

This race to the bottom on price thus a race to the bottom on quality causes a multitude of issues. Instead of using better quality long lasting materials such as copper pipes in plumbing as previously mentioned we are using plastic. We know that plastic is not always the best product to use especially for applications with short disposable life. It might be a cheap option but the cost post purchase, use and disposal can be immense. We are finding this with single use plastics now. I still feel quality is the answer not quantity for a multitude and variety of reasons. We need to look at the whole end to end life of a product pre and post purchase/use.

It isn't always so cut and dry which is better. I just can't believe any of the information I have seen that details an EV or especially a Tesla is better for the environment and us all over running an older car that has already been produced. Especially when we could improve existing already produced vehicles through add on innovation to reduce emissions further.

For me the pressure and rate of change to things we can easily change is not big enough or fast enough. All single use non-recyclable packaging plastic or otherwise should be
banned within a very very short timeframe. One good thing that CV pandemic has shown us is how quick we can move to do things if we really want or need to or the political will also exists. We have done amazing things in very short timeframes around the world. Why does it take something like the CV to kick this into gear when it could be exercised and utilised at any point?

A fantastic summary on the choices we are all going to have to make ( much sooner rather than later) around quantity vs quality vs price. My vote is having much more focus on quality as the over riding consideration.

 

[Hurricane52]

Europe are insistent that all white goods and tools etc are repairable.

I guess that’s why Bosch moved production to Malaysia, Mexico and China...

 

[2b1ask1]

Europe are insistent that all white goods and tools etc are repairable.

repairable?
I tend to buy Bosch white goods so they are repairable by myself and they are a premium product anyway. With a large family we do get through washing machines however. The previous washing machine was required during a time of fiscal hardship and I bought a Hotpoint as the best I could afford. When the bearings went (they always do) on the drum I thought, no problem, half a morning’s work and £40. No the bearings could not be removed and replaced, the service part is a complete replacement of both drums!!! Cost was higher than a replacement machine... Needless to say we again have a Bosch unit with serviceable parts. Over 5 years in and I have just had to replace the doser unit on the soap tray £130 but already the machine has outlived its predecessor.

 

[lozcb]

I have spent the last 4 months working alongside The Sentry ( George Clooney ) and The Enough project , some of you may be aware of it and what they do and what there aim is , they invited me in an advisory capacity re exactly that , the way China circumvents or ignores the international rules and boundary's specifically in resource and mining . To be fair i have been in conflict over the last 4 years with 2 illegal chinese mining companies encroaching upon our licenced concessions , facilitated by the governors or 2 separate regions within South Sudan.

Being British and subject to all that the OECD has layed down in recent years ,we are 100% crystal clean which has a financial cost attached to it , the Chinese come in through a back door initially facilitated by the office of the first lady , and then they get forwarded on to various areas under the facilitation of various Govenors.

This is where it gets extremely tacky, to have an exploration licence means to have to basically make a contract via the Mining Ministry and agree to spend x amount whilst employing x amount of local people within x time limit , part of that contract internationaly means you are duty bound to report your findings at regular intervals, Now because of the warfare within South Sudan no bugger is stupid or cranky enough to work there , so their own trainee geologists wont work alongside me lol, so happily for last few years ive been spending x amount of money on exploation , sample and bulk testing programs in lets just say very dangeous conditions. obviously its all out in the bush and means 2-3 months permanently in the field at a time, each time followed shortly after by yet another Chinese mining company.

What i found out end of 2018 was that the Chinese have been bribing the minister of mining ,who has instructed the relevant departments to hand over our companies data and records to date , so they know exactly what i have spent good time money finding , coordinates and assumed reserves everything , Understand now why im a bit pissssed off with the Chinese, and the SS Mining dept, last 18months obviously i have started giving them false data reports.

Your getting the idea of what i have been up against ......................so its happening in virtually every sector and its so blatant

file:///C:/Users/lozcb/Desktop/UntappedUnprepared-TheSentry-April2020.pdf

This qualifies what the Chinese are up to and how they corrupt the political actors , this article is based in Eastern Equatoria mainly around Kapoeta our licence of 2500 sqkm

Red flag up on South Sudan mining sector

US watchdog warns that South Sudan’s mining sector could be next source of conflicts.

www.theeastafrican.co.ke

 

[zagatoes30]

All the points of quality over price are well made and logical to most on here, however we are a small minority the vast majority of the the public want it now and want it cheap. The changes needed are much global and until we start to think globally then nothing will change, China might be todays problem, but there are so many other countries prepared to do the same thing.

 

[lozcb]

All the points of quality over price are well made and logical to most on here, however we are a small minority the vast majority of the the public want it now and want it cheap. The changes needed are much global and until we start to think globally then nothing will change, China might be todays problem, but there are so many other countries prepared to do the same thing.

China might be todays problem, but there are so many other countries prepared to do the same thing.

Other countries would be fine providing control is maintained , the Western world from day one never had control of what was going on in China, cheaper labour is fine in respect to local economies , but having complete control of product integrity is must have, Most countries just have the ambition to improve the quality of life for its citizens and to gain as much wealth as possible , but China ( CCP ) has never hidden the fact that its target is to be the NO 1 power in all things , and anyone who has lived there is well aware that they are one of the most racially prejudice nations out there

 

[Felonious Crud]

Whilst I'm cautious of this becoming an anti-China thread, I so have one small anecdote. China's ambitions in Africa are widely known - look at the support it's giving now in relation to CV19. What is perhaps less widely known is that China will offer some of its prison population the chance to serve their sentences providing labour in certain African countries. At the end of their sentences, they are granted citizenship of the country in which they have been working.

More generally, in many ways I have a great affection for China and its people. The culture, rich history and beauty of the country is spectacular and fascinating. The way in which the country is managed and controlled is another matter. Like Russians and Russia; individually wonderful, warm and hospitable, as a nation somewhat more problematic.

Dean raised another more general / less anti-Chinese topic. We should just buy stuff more locally. Less shipping = less pollution, we need less shite so why do we keep buying it?, support our local economy and become more self-sufficient, stop raping the planet for raw materials which end up in landfill, etc etc.

 

[lozcb]

Whilst I'm cautious of this becoming an anti-China thread, I so have one small anecdote. China's ambitions in Africa are widely known - look at the support it's giving now in relation to CV19. What is perhaps less widely known is that China will offer some of its prison population the chance to serve their sentences providing labour in certain African countries. At the end of their sentences, they are granted citizenship of the country in which they have been working.

More generally, in many ways I have a great affection for China and its people. The culture, rich history and beauty of the country is spectacular and fascinating. The way in which the country is managed and controlled is another matter. Like Russians and Russia; individually wonderful, warm and hospitable, as a nation somewhat more problematic.

Dean raised another more general / less anti-Chinese topic. We should just buy stuff more locally. Less shipping = less pollution, we need less shite so why do we keep buying it?, support our local economy and become more self-sufficient, stop raping the planet for raw materials which end up in landfill, etc etc.

Absoluetly spot , around 80% of the Chinese labour in Eastern africa are cons or ex cons , its well known and widespread throughout im, sure , its only in the last couple of years that Kenya and Uganda have stipulated that all labour must now be national, and only supervisory positions held by Chinese , and ven they have to work and train 3 national counterparts .............i think most people realise its not an Anti Chinese sentiment rather an anti CCP sentiment

 

[hashluck]

Whenever I buy anything I like to know where it has come from. From using a local farm shop and buying local produce in season to meeting the person who designed and built my watch. The ethos I have always had is I buy the seller first wherever possible, build a relationship. I have been on many factory tours in the UK (Linn Hi-Fi, Aston Martin for example and others in Europe come to that) and that experience is unbeatable. To hear and see first hand the passion involved making what they make also makes the ownership experience all the better. Don't begrudge someone a profit if you get better service and will be looked after if something goes wrong.
Buy once.
In business some of the deals I am proudest of are the ones I have not done. Where I have refused to join the race to the bottom and have my company design, build and deliver something ultimately at a loss. I try to sell on value. Sometimes that means they go elsewhere to pay less. Historically they have always come back, sometimes it may take several years but they do.
I don't know how realistic this is and I appreciate that if you want to own certain gadgets it is nigh on impossible to dictate the country or manufacturer of origin but this is the simple ethos I try and stand by and at least consider every purchase and acquisition. It was both interesting and sad that whilst Sainsbury and Tesco had empty shelves, my local corner shop and the local farm shop had everything I needed between them and no queues. We have become programmed to shop and consume in a certain way and hopefully this current situation will cause most to re-think (not that this current situation necessarily bought about Dean's post).

 

[Evo Cymru]

An interesting thread here that reflects what I have heard from family with business in China and friends with manufacturing here, particularly copyright infringement with the latter!

On the choice of price vs durability, I read an interesting piece in a Bill Bryson book many years ago which I try and remember when I am due to buy something:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten".

Sadly, I feel most are more prepared to buy cheap and replace, or indeed just replace even if something could be fixed as seems to be the case with my own sons' attitude to things....

 

[hashluck]

An interesting thread here that reflects what I have heard from family with business in China and friends with manufacturing here, particularly copyright infringement with the latter!

On the choice of price vs durability, I read an interesting piece in a Bill Bryson book many years ago which I try and remember when I am due to buy something:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten".

Sadly, I feel most are more prepared to buy cheap and replace, or indeed just replace even if something could be fixed as seems to be the case with my own sons' attitude to things....

And 'Quality remains long after price is forgotten'

 

[lozcb]

An interesting thread here that reflects what I have heard from family with business in China and friends with manufacturing here, particularly copyright infringement with the latter!

On the choice of price vs durability, I read an interesting piece in a Bill Bryson book many years ago which I try and remember when I am due to buy something:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten".

Sadly, I feel most are more prepared to buy cheap and replace, or indeed just replace even if something could be fixed as seems to be the case with my own sons' attitude to things....

That reminds me of a time when my sons rabbit died due a fox ripping the Chicken wire from the cage , my wife and I anxt over how to tell him thinking he would be so traumatised and upset ,after putting it off in the evening i finally sat him on my knee and explained the going to heaven bit blah blah , his reply was thats alright dad we just get another one from the shop lol .....says it all ................. 30 years later if something happened to his dog , heaven and earth would open up

 

[rockits]

I am keen like most for this to not be an anti-China thread per se. It wasn't started or meant to be this. It happens that what China do/support/create is currently part of the issue but as others have said if it wasn't China it would be someone else somewhere else. They are just meeting demand.

The market will supply what the market wants. The market desires need to change to force manufacturer and supplier changes.

The corruption and imbalance is an issue and needs to be dealt with, monitored and managed at govt level. We have always had this, still have it and may always have it to an extent. Attitudes need to change to invoke change.

It is all about doing stuff for money rather than for other reasons. We all know money is often an imbalanced driver and sometimes a root of evil but change can happen. Yes, we have to start small and somewhere.

As John has mentioned it is great to see when faced with options the resistance to increase the support of the race to the bottom. If we keep providing cheap tat for the majority to buy they will. If we change this they will change buying habits because they have to as that is no longer an option.

Maybe the govts should flip this on its head and impose levies/taxes on one use products. Being more responsible to what you bring into the world is then exited correctly as well. It is your product for its life. There should be a stamped code on all products and when we find them we know who created them and they need to deal with disposal.

Obviously pie in the sky ideas and massively complex to kick off but we need to change as we cannot continue along the current route.