Made in China

[rockits]

Well this might be controversial for some but I can't ignore it any longer. I think it has done enough damage to our little country for far too long and will continue unless we change our buying habits and purchasing decisions.

The final nail in the coffin for me recently was a bad replacement battery for the cordless Dyson. The original was knackered after a couple of years of use and only lasting a minute. Bought from an alleged UK seller on Ebay but arrived I'm guessing from the UK but box labelled Made in China.

Lasted 2 days and packed up. Seller didn't respond. Ebay will refund.

However I've had enough of buying cheap tat from China. So from now on all my decisions I will try to boycott tat from China as it is rubbish in the main.

Where possible I will try to buy from a UK supplier and manufacturer or.vuy better quality stuff if I can from countries other than China.

I realise it will take me longer, sometimes it will be harder and almost certainly will be more expensive. However we have to start somewhere and with small steps but we will all be better for it if we can start turning the tide.

The reason for the thread is three fold I guess. To see who feels the same and will support the same ethos. Also secondly to share options of sources and products we have bought we can recommend as alternatives to the typical cheap Chinese options. Thirdly it has to be a good thing for the environment trying to localise rather than globalise.

I have always had HTC mobiles but bought a Huawei last year which has been very good. However in line with the above I will be buying a replacement mobile soon and getting shot of this Huawei one.

This is not necessarily about the recent virus issues as I have no fact yet on how/where it started and who is most responsible for its rapid global spread. Maybe a little catalyst but we have supported a corrupt and distrustful Chinese regime and their associated economy for too long now. It is time to start thinking of the long term future for the UK. It won't be a prosperous one if we don't take action and reserve the past a little if we can.

Any others out there feel the same?

 

[Guy]

Dean, I relate to your thinking but it is very complex in many aspects. Would you boycott Lotus and Volvo cars (owned by Geely) or avoid Apple products (mostly built there), not take an electric taxi? Many supply chains are dependent on China somewhere. I even discovered, when I bought my Kef speakers recently that they are Chinese owned, no longer a great British artisan manufacturer from Kent (mine were made in Kent bt that is the minority). If you are thinking in terms of simply small 'tat' from the internet then that is not so hard to do. I would love us all to source our meat from British farms (not just packed in the UK) and support our local businesses wherever possible but that's another thread....

 

[rockits]

It is indeed complex but I have to start somewhere. I do boycott Apple products anyway and it hurt when the wife wanted to buy my son an iPod and an iPhone for her.

I just don't agree with the concept that we are now producing so much cheap disposable rubbish. It doesn't do anyone any good.

The buy cheap buy twice adage is becoming more common but we seem to be quite accepting of it in the main. We are just filling landfill with all this stuff. I guess it starts at the beginning of do we really need half the staff we have. The amount of bread makers and other rarely used by some electrical kitchen devices must be immense.

I have no idea how but I'll be making a conscious effort to reduce consumption of this toot. Even if I can make a reduction of any percentage however small will be a step in the right direction.

 

[allandwf]

I try and use the local shops where I can, butchers , bakers. I try not to buy from China, as they flooded the market with a copy of a design my brother and law and sister had copyright on. A waste of time and money trying to get any recourse. I agree though that some products that are sourced there are fine, it is the cheap knock off stuff that should be stopped.

 

[Silvercat]

Well this might be controversial for some but I can't ignore it any longer. I think it has done enough damage to our little country for far too long and will continue unless we change our buying habits and purchasing decisions.

The final nail in the coffin for me recently was a bad replacement battery for the cordless Dyson. The original was knackered after a couple of years of use and only lasting a minute. Bought from an alleged UK seller on Ebay but arrived I'm guessing from the UK but box labelled Made in China.

Lasted 2 days and packed up. Seller didn't respond. Ebay will refund.

However I've had enough of buying cheap tat from China. So from now on all my decisions I will try to boycott tat from China as it is rubbish in the main.

Where possible I will try to buy from a UK supplier and manufacturer or.vuy better quality stuff if I can from countries other than China.

I realise it will take me longer, sometimes it will be harder and almost certainly will be more expensive. However we have to start somewhere and with small steps but we will all be better for it if we can start turning the tide.

The reason for the thread is three fold I guess. To see who feels the same and will support the same ethos. Also secondly to share options of sources and products we have bought we can recommend as alternatives to the typical cheap Chinese options. Thirdly it has to be a good thing for the environment trying to localise rather than globalise.

I have always had HTC mobiles but bought a Huawei last year which has been very good. However in line with the above I will be buying a replacement mobile soon and getting shot of this Huawei one.

This is not necessarily about the recent virus issues as I have no fact yet on how/where it started and who is most responsible for its rapid global spread. Maybe a little catalyst but we have supported a corrupt and distrustful Chinese regime and their associated economy for too long now. It is time to start thinking of the long term future for the UK. It won't be a prosperous one if we don't take action and reserve the past a little if we can.

Any others out there feel the same?

I completely agree with you and that's exactly what we will be doing over time but it will be very much "slowly slowly catch a bat" to unravel what are often complex supply chains with China. Personally having spent 31 years involved in military supply chains
(which incidentally excluded any parts supply from China for national security reasons) I think there will be a huge focus on the future complexity and distance of supply chains. I think UKG will be asking many critical industries to massively simplify their supply chains and at all levels and dual source critical parts to reduce the risk of dependency that we have now. China is very much in the driving seat right now but it has got to change for everyones sake and future prosperity but it could take 10+ years to achieve this.

 

[madmanmart]

Good luck with this one.
Even products manufactured in the Uk or elsewhere can trace its raw materials back to the Far East.
I agree with your concept in principle but in reality we have lost far too much of over manufacturing base to ever get it back. Mainly due to red tape.
I import on average 12 containers a year from China and wish I could purchase product here.

 

[keith]

Good luck with this one.
Even products manufactured in the Uk or elsewhere can trace its raw materials back to the Far East.
I agree with your concept in principle but in reality we have lost far too much of over manufacturing base to ever get it back. Mainly due to red tape.
I import on average 12 containers a year from China and wish I could purchase product here.

Exactly...
And it's wrong to say because it comes from China it's just rubbish.
I have a couple of drones, a Phantom 3 and more recently a Mavic Mini. Both these products are made in China by a Chinese company - DJI. These people from a sea of mostly Chinese manufacturers are considered to be the Rolls Royce of that industry.
On a topic I contributed to elsewhere on this forum, Scalextric- a product produced by Hornby Hobbies, who twenty odd years ago switched production to China which resulted in the survival of the brand, as the products were infinitely better and cheaper to manufacturer over there than in the UK.
As you point out, sadly our manufacturing base has been decimated as a result of a whole variety of elements, some of which we have only ourselves to blame, so now the UK could at best be described as a niche producer in a handful of sectors. Let's hope we can hang on to what little we have left!!

 

[FIFTY]

Great idea

However I expect that after the pandemic is over the resulting "belt tightening" will mean that yet more companies will turn to China for cost saving and value engineering.

 

[allandwf]

Great idea

However I expect that after the pandemic is over the resulting "belt tightening" will mean that yet more companies will turn to China for cost saving and value engineering.

There will also be many businesses ready to start/restart here, a bit of re evaluation all round ?

 

[rockits]

Well so far sounds like a 50/50 support of UK and China.

I'm still going to support us as much as I can and am still going to avoid Chinese made products as much as I can. It is not just China but a desire to localise more than globalise. However I do seem to have an issue of trust with China and others.

I think as we are finding with environmental issues and globalisation in general there seem to be more negatives than positives when you really analyse it. The air quality in so many countries and cities has been massively and visibly improved die to reductions of globalisation due to the CV.

Just seems when the dust settles many want to go back to how it was. I don't.

 

[FIFTY]

There will also be many businesses ready to start/restart here, a bit of re evaluation all round ?

I would expect that it depends on market demands and how cash rich a company is to allow it to stick to its principles

I have worked in retail lighting for ten years and the past decade has been a race to the bottom price wise with quality taking a dip along with it. While I have always worked for companies that do most of their assembly and manufacturing in Europe - Chinese encroachment into the market has picked up pace over the last 4-5 years with the actual retail end users (the client) constantly demanding better value (cheaper) due to their own worsening circumstances... We are at the mercy of the buyers who value engineer us into oblivion... They will either find a Chinese product or a European supplier who relabels a Chinese product as their own for a fraction of the cost.

I expect post pandemic reliance on cheap Chinese products in my market will increase

 

[Silvercat]

Good luck with this one.
Even products manufactured in the Uk or elsewhere can trace its raw materials back to the Far East.
I agree with your concept in principle but in reality we have lost far too much of over manufacturing base to ever get it back. Mainly due to red tape.
I import on average 12 containers a year from China and wish I could purchase product here.

It's all about re-establishing and investing in capability that we have either lost or need to develop from new. 30 years ago we never had this level of dependency on China so there is no reason why we cant reverse out of this and look to establish much greater autonomy. TBH the quality of the stuff that we used to buy 30-40 years was significantly better than the **** which is now imposed upon us. I get the arguments about cost vs quaility and all that but I dont agree that UK cant compete if we are determined enough to do so. So for me its high time that we took back control of the UK's future.

 

[Contigo]

Can’t punish all the Chinese I guess and tar them with the same brush. May as well blame airlines for flying the virus around the World. I don’t see a way out of this unless everyone and I mean everyone goes into hibernation at the same time for 6 weeks and I mean hospital workers too. It’s not possible so spread will continue. Such is the nature of SARS-CoV-2 that with the long incubation period and asymptomatic carriers it means that it literally is a silent and invisible killer. Unless we test and contacf trace to the max we will never quash it so that means we have to accept that it will be part of our lives forever like the common cold and seasonal flu. Yes there is a vaccine for flu but this strain seems much more virulent and has already mutated into at least two strains. When it comes back in Autumn it will more than likely infect 50% of us. All this recent round of quarantine has done is help flatten the curve but in my opinion we need to relax lockdown measures in a month to stop economic disaster and also prevent depression and general malaise in the population.

 

[madmanmart]

It's all about re-establishing and investing in capability that we have either lost or need to develop from new. 30 years ago we never had this level of dependency on China so there is no reason why we cant reverse out of this and look to establish much greater autonomy. TBH the quality of the stuff that we used to buy 30-40 years was significantly better than the **** which is now imposed upon us. I get the arguments about cost vs quaility and all that but I dont agree that UK cant compete if we are determined enough to do so. So for me its high time that we took back control of the UK's future.

There is far too much red tape pricing us out the market in this country for us to bring back basic low tech manufacturing.
China are prepared to do the things we won’t or dare not do anymore.
China make and sell quality products but also make shite, it’s up to us which we buy.

 

[Silvercat]

There is no way out of this without mass antibody testing to confirm who has and who hasnt got immunity and then a programme of mass vaccination ( if it ever becomes an option) for those who haven't. So the reality is that we will hit an economic tipping point when UKG will have no choice but to restart the economy, irrespective of the infection and mortality rates. All what we are doing now is buying time to allow the NHS to gear up to manage high volumes of admissions so that those who are admitted have the best possible chance of survival. Sadly its that black and white . I agree Covid-19 will stick around a long time, as did polio, smallpox,diphtheria ( back in the day) etc etc..
Regarding China; we can continue to accept the status quo ( and the race to the bottom) or do something positive about changing the direction of UK economy. Re-establishing capabilities and investing in our and in our children and grandchildren's future is all down to us. If we don't we will always be vulnerable to situations like Covid-19 and more seriously, we could always be vulnerable to intentional actions from hostile countries like China and others. It's our choice, but I know what I would like to see.

 

[MRichards]

My brother manufactured gate hinges & latches to his patented designs. When the Chinese realised there was a market for these they called him threatening to flood the market with copies. He confidently ignored the threats since there were some parts they couldn't replicate. So,1-nil to us. Then the local parts manufacturers caused problems with quality such that a lot of parts were scrapped. The reason for the poor quality was outdated machinery which couldn't give the exact tolerances required. So parts were sourced from China at a fraction of the local cost & there were no quality problems. So,1 - 1 for the game
Then an enterprising local manufacturer promised to make the parts for less cost than the Chinese. His parts were excellent & he consistently undercut the Chinese. However,he had an advantage which the Chinese couldn't steal.........turnaround time. He could make the parts & deliver within a week,an impossibility for the Chinese who used sea freight. So, 2 - 1 we win.
New Zealand has an excellent attitude towards the Chinese standover tactics. The Kiwis will copy anything and charge far less than the Chinese. Their response to any enquiry is, "Yes we can make it,how many do you want". I was buying enamelled metal lapel badges for the local Lotus club & paying $7 for Chinese tat. The Kiwis made a better badge for $3. The local manufacturers weren't even interested !

So,you can beat the Chinese at their own game.

 

[rockits]

I agree there has been a race to the bottom and it seems manufacturers, distributors and suppliers seem to presume that price is the only and ultimate factor. It isn't and should be.

We have become such an over complex society it is really difficult to make informed decisions easily or quickly. It is very much a domino effect.

Possibly we work too many hours so have less time and make quick decisions on purchases and have less time to do things that work out more cost effective. In general I am sure the average UK citizen has far too many take aways as an example. Bad for cost and bad for health in the main. We spend to dirive secondary happiness to mask underlying lacks of primary happiness.

We have this pressure to spend and grow which feeds buying stuff maybe we don't need. How many people have far too many clothes or shoes or all sorts of stuff we don't really need. All of these little things all build then feed into a bigger picture and problem.

I don't want the cheapest option or the fastest option all the time. Sometimes there is a choice but sometimes not. There is no value to any of us to feed this race to the bottom and make more quantity of lower value products. Also if this means that globalisation is fed or increased to meet this demand it is all wrong.

We all know EV's aren't the answer so let's stop the march forward with it. We all know that building a Tesla that weighs 1000kg more than it should do is not the answer. If it lasts 10 years that is not the answer. If a Tesla lasted 50 years and was the expensive price it is then you could argue for it. However, we know this is not the case.

This really isn't difficult to get, understand and deal with. It becomes harder to fix the more complex we make it. Make it all simpler and the problems become simpler to fix. I don't believe we have gone beyond the point of no return. The problem is that many of the next generation seem to have less of a handle on it than we do.

 

[midlifecrisis]

I'm completely with you Dean. There has to be some reckoning with China over this virus and their pitiful efforts of containing it and warning the rest of the world.
China has a poor record of human rights, workers rights (ironic for a Socialist country!), and of course it's not a democracy.
China outwardly steals our technology, copies our copyrighted products and disrupts our markets.

 

[rockits]

I would be surprised if there aren't some trade fireworks from US/UK against China after the dust settles. Or if not the other option is China buy/pay their way out of this with US/UK and others.

My fear is that money talks and often is the driver. If this was the case there would be a short term gain and then medium to long term back to normal.

The fundamental human greed and some of the far easts attitude to stealing and copying stuff is a problem. However, the buck ultimately stops and actually starts with us as consumers. If we don't buy it then the shifts starts changing. If we start demanding something different the market will create it to satisfy that demand. It is billy basics economics demand and supply. If we keep demanding it then it will be supplied and the status quo continues.

Nobody listened to Bill Gates who has been lobying and making people aware this pandemic would happen for many years.

Many others more travelled then myself would disagree I'm sure but I don't think the massive globalisation we have supported is doing more good than harm. I'd say it is doing us more harm than good.

The Chinese wealth and growth has exploded because of our insatiable appetite for consumption. Their new increased wealth has now created their own booming internal economy to the point they can do more for themselves than ever also needing less of our imports than ever. Yes, it has stumbled in the last year or so but if the rest of the world stopped consuming their stuff their model falls flat on its face.

I understand they import most of their raw materials though as don't have much of their own.

I don't agree in a modern society that communism can work and their support of almost slave labour and poor working conditions is an issue. The UK have made great strides to improve working conditions in the UK. However seemingly letting themselves down recently with lack of basic PPE provision to staff in the NHS thoughtout the CV pandemic.

I have far from all the answers. Just keen to change whatever I can when I feel what we are doing is wrong. In effect by buying much of their wares we are supporting the poor working conditions and all the other issues rolled in.

 

[Wack61]

Can’t punish all the Chinese I guess and tar them with the same brush. May as well blame airlines for flying the virus around the World. I don’t see a way out of this unless everyone and I mean everyone goes into hibernation at the same time for 6 weeks and I mean hospital workers too. It’s not possible so spread will continue. Such is the nature of SARS-CoV-2 that with the long incubation period and asymptomatic carriers it means that it literally is a silent and invisible killer. Unless we test and contacf trace to the max we will never quash it so that means we have to accept that it will be part of our lives forever like the common cold and seasonal flu. Yes there is a vaccine for flu but this strain seems much more virulent and has already mutated into at least two strains. When it comes back in Autumn it will more than likely infect 50% of us. All this recent round of quarantine has done is help flatten the curve but in my opinion we need to relax lockdown measures in a month to stop economic disaster and also prevent depression and general malaise in the population.

Prevent depression, I was fine before I read that , I'm on my way to the garage to look for rope now