Frequent cold start, move a bit and stop - will this ruin my QPV?

Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
202
Due to limited parking where I live I frequently have to do a “car shuffle” with my wife or son’s car which requires me to start my QPV (usually from cold) move it a few metres then turn it off, meaning the engine is only running for 30-60 seconds.

I do try and give the car at least one weekly run of a reasonable no. of miles getting it fully up to temperature and giving it a bit of an “Italian tune up” but I am a bit concerned that these frequent cold start / stops may be detrimental to the car maybe damaging the cats or something?

Am I right to be worried about this ?

Thanks,
Tim
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,789
It's not going to be great for it. How much damage it's *actually* going to do is probably difficult to quantify. I'd try and avoid it, though.

C
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,464
Second what Chris has said a cold engine running briefly is just going to generate condensation which won't burn off as not getting up to temperature.
Always best to go for a run and keep everything working.
 

RussBird82

Junior Member
Messages
75
Probably not the end of the world if you give it a good blast once a week in the colder weather to clear its lungs. While on the subject I was always taught it's best to drive a car to warm it up as opposed let it idle/run rich. Obviously don't thrash it but once the windows are clear and visibility is good its best to get moving to bring it up to temp.

Depending how precious you are about the car, the problem at this time of year is finding an opportunity to take it out and avoid salt roads. I took mine out a week or so back just before the gritters decended and I've not taken it out since. Thankfully its rained considerably since but unless it warms up I'm guessing the next clear spell they'll be out in force again.
 
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Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
202
Not, me, chap. Although it's easy to see why you might think that, given my driving skill ;)

C
I suspect he is asking me rather than you @CatmanV2 ;)

And the answer however is no, I would like to think that THE Tim Harvey did well enough in his career not to have the same parking issues at his home that I do and therefore would not have needed to create this post!

Not the first time I have been asked this though and it has lead to a few interesting mistakes over the years, I even received a full VIP drivers pack from Goodwood inviting me to drive at the Revival a few years back :thumb3:
 

c4sman

Member
Messages
1,260
I recon the worse thing you can do is leave it idling on the drive to warm up. That is maximum damage for minimum gain, so best to switch it off after the shuffle. If you’re taking it for a weekly run the damage from cold start condensation should hopefully be minimal (although I’m no expert).
 

Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
202
I recon the worse thing you can do is leave it idling on the drive to warm up. That is maximum damage for minimum gain, so best to switch it off after the shuffle. If you’re taking it for a weekly run the damage from cold start condensation should hopefully be minimal (although I’m no expert).
Thanks, this is what I was wondering. I don’t really have the option of taking it for a proper drive to warm it up during the “shuffle” so I was wondering if it was better to start, move and turn off asap or start, move and allow to idle to temperature and then turn off.
 

alastairb

Member
Messages
239
Just start it and move it, shut it off. Keep your oil in good nick (regular changes) I can't see it accelerating anything catastrophic to the engine.
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,773
As all have said, not ideal as most engine wear occurs on cold start, but needs must and it probably won't make any difference to engine life during your ownership.
I imagine it'll be your battery that will be suffering the most.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,631
What you are going to do by this is fill the oil with carbon.

The job of the oil, other than lubrication, is to scrub the engine and take in the contaminates which is how it goes darker. As you describe will diminish it’s working life as short starts will accelerate it’s scrubbing nature.

If you are concerned, change the oil annually and I don’t see a problem.

As mentioned above, water will also form and you will probably get ‘mayonaising’ on the underside of the oil filler cap and water in the oil (turns to a coffee colour/consistency) which boils off under normal use.
 

Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
202
What you are going to do by this is fill the oil with carbon.

The job of the oil, other than lubrication, is to scrub the engine and take in the contaminates which is how it goes darker. As you describe will diminish it’s working life as short starts will accelerate it’s scrubbing nature.

If you are concerned, change the oil annually and I don’t see a problem.

As mentioned above, water will also form and you will probably get ‘mayonaising’ on the underside of the oil filler cap and water in the oil (turns to a coffee colour/consistency) which boils off under normal use.
Thanks @conaero regular oil changes it is then!
 

James3200GTA

Junior Member
Messages
26
Just my 5 cents: you must do what you must, but at cold start the lubriction in the engine is at the least ideal point. In addition to the remarks above:
When the engine is off, most of the oil will drain back into the sump. It will take a few RPM before sufficient oil pressure is built up. During that time lubrication is not optimal in some parts of the engine.

Same goes for the sliding bearing parts: The thin oil film thickness providing lubrication deminishes when the engine is off. It will take a few RPM to built up sufficient oil film thickness between the bearing plains i.e. before the rotating part is optimally "surfing" on an oil film. But with cold oil it'll be more difficult to built up than with hot oil as the oil is more viscous (thicker). So the bearing will run longer with less lubrication at every cold start up. Hence why most engines used in emergency services such ambulance etc. are fitted with engine heating. The oil will be at temperature for them race off from 0 to full throtlle out of the garage while limiting engine damage.

Also at cold engine temperatures the engine is running richer and causing more condensation. This will for a significant part end up in your engine oil and won't be evaporated off untill the oil has been at temperature for a long time. That's why one needs to be wary of ppl saying "I do not ever have to top up the oil between services". Most likely they are only running short distances and the oil get's topped up with water out of the condensate.
In addition everytime the engine is turned of the last remaining unburned fuel also condenses, washes off the oil on the cilinder walls and settles in the oil. Petrol is also not a great lubricant. Hence my LPG fueled cars had less wear than my petrol cars I have had, besides the fact that LPG proceduces way less carbon built up: the lpg does not condense as it is a gas at normal temperatures.

On my modern car I've got an oil temp gauge (don't know why the mas hasn't gat that, still contemplating building one in): Coolant will be up to temp in abt 3-5 km, depending on ambient temp. The oil will not settle to a stable 80-90 dgr C for another 15-20 km. That's with an ideal warm up imo: 1 km creaping out of the residential area with 30kph, then 1 km 50 kph getting out of the village followed by 7 km at 70-80 kph before turning onto the motorway where I do another 35-40 km every day. I can also take the short cut, but then I'd have to floor it after 3 km to get onto the motorway on an uphill ramp, so I try to avoid that as much as possible.
What I've also noticed: The coolant temp will settle at 90 dgr quickly and stay there. The oil temp will vary: While stationary idling at the traffic light it'll go up 10 dgrs, but when you start driving it'll drop 7 again. Not having investigated this, but I believe the oil temp sensor is somewhere in the engine rather than in the sump. When idling the oil pressure and flow is low and the sensor get's influenced by the hotter engine block. Once the car gets moving it'll pump more colder oil out of the sump, causing a temp drop in the circuit. This will not settle untill about 30 km from my house and even then it can vary anywhere between 85-95 dgr C.

Mind you, this is a 1 liter, 3 pot engine fitted with a hairdryer. Not sure how much oil it takes (lease car, I only top it up once every 12-15K...), I'm guessing it's about half of the fluid quantity the mas takes. So the mas will take longer to get up to temp.

So frequent oil changes and long runs once a week are a good idea. Also park the car so you have to move it the least amount as I assume the QP is the most valuable car in your household ;) and go low and slow when moving the car.
 
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Harvey_Tim

Member
Messages
202
Thanks to everyone for your input. There is not a lot I can do about the situation so I think I just need to keep doing what I am doing and treat the car to a good run at the weekend.