Electric Cars Still Struggling.

[davy83]

Depreciation is eye-watering. If you bought it new, you’d be crying. And they’re not good for the planet, people just tell you they are.

As annoyed as some EVangelists get about us being ‘anti EV’; I get even more annoyed about the ‘cheap to run’ rhetoric when they’re insanely expensive. A new EQC was £75k, they’re retailing at £22-24k at a present. That may be lots of things, but not cheap.

I was unsure about the carbon credentials of EV's having also heard all the arguments suggesting the batteries and electricity make it worse. Sadly the truth appears to be they probably are, and yet both opinions are presented with some conviction. some good plain speaking evidence suggests to me the environmental argument is sound from US EPA, MIT, NYtimes and the RAC.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Are electric vehicles definitely better for the climate than gas-powered cars?

Yes: although electric cars' batteries make them more carbon-intensive to manufacture than gas cars, they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions.

climate.mit.edu

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/climate/electric-vehicles-environment.html

Are electric cars better for the environment? | RAC Drive

We examine the evidence for and against the green credentials of electric vehicles with help from the Energy Saving Trust.

www.rac.co.uk

Governements need to improve electricity generation, but it seems clear to me that an EV is a positive step in terms of our climate mess, and they are cheap to run, loony fast, and pretty reliable, so I just don't see why we need to hate them so much. ANd yes the depreciation is steep and i bought my car just over 3 years old anf yes it had dropped a lot. But surely its just the sort of stuff in this thread that makes the prices drop? I am sure EV prices will settle to more acceptable levels given a little time and there are signs that's happening.

 

[davy83]

I think you are fighting a lost cause asking a Maserati forum to vote for EVs.

It would have been like writing into Horse and Hound in 1901 asking readers to get rid of thier horses and buy a car.

Yes I know

 

[allandwf]

The part I have an issue with is city/flat dwellers, who are a quite substantial part of the population.There is nothing in place or likely to be in place to allow them to charge. There are not enough parking spaces as it is for them, let alone a dedicated one with a charge point.

 

[Zep]

I think the dull part is everyone has already said all they are going to about EVs.

Some think they are expensive (they are probably right), some think they are better for the planet (they almost certainly are), some think they are dull to drive and others that they are relaxing to drive. They are probably both right.

The question I’d ask is why, given that it is so triggering, do we keep saying the same thing over and over? If you don’t like people disagreeing with you, it’s probably best not to enter into a debate.

 

[highlander]

The question I’d ask is why, given that it is so triggering, do we keep saying the same thing over and over?

because the one thing we all have in common on this forum is........we are dinosaurs trying to make sense of a modern world!

I dont hate EVs, i hate we are being sold a pig in a poke by the corporations and politicians that "its ok, the infrastructure will be there to support you..." when it is as clear as day that the necessary infrastructure is unlikely ever going to be there.

For me personally the turning point was when i retired i looked into getting the porsche EV instead of another big ICE given how low the prices are for them 2nd hand. i thought the range would do me fine even for visiting family just outside glasgow or trips to glasgow edinburgh until i spoke to our garage, who are EV acredited or whatever it is called, who told me that range would be fine for summer but a no-no go for winter with lights, wipers and heater on.........the A9 like a lot of main roads is like a desert when simply talking working charge points never mind fast charge points between here and glasgow. So do i really want to add serious charging time to the already 3.5 hour journey? no is the short answer.

 

[philw696]

I'm actually Happy being a Dinosaur especially when I'm in my workshop and spending time on nice cars using tools that many I've had for over 40 years and a good few a lot older as they were my father's.
Proud of the Skills that I was taught by some good old buggers.
I'm probably the last of the age that can get away staying from technology and that's my aim along with a few others.

 

[CatmanV2]

Drugs are bad.

That's heavy!

C

 

[highlander]

I'm actually Happy being a Dinosaur especially when I'm in my workshop and spending time on nice cars using tools that many I've had for over 40 years and a good few a lot older as they were my father's.
Proud of the Skills that I was taught by some good old buggers.
I'm probably the last of the age that can get away staying from technology and that's my aim along with a few others.

hey bro. you remind me of the main mech in the garage we use. he was the main mech for ford motor sport in the 70s, now he is 70s plus himself he has forgotten more about cars than most will learn!

 

[philw696]

hey bro. you remind me of the main mech in the garage we use. he was the main mech for ford motor sport in the 70s, now he is 70s plus himself he has forgotten more about cars than most will learn!

Glad I spent a lot of time with my father who died in 2015 at 85 he taught me so much as he really lived in the Automotive heydays.

 

[MarkMas]

Out of interest, to me anyway, what is being done if anything re electrification of flights? It seems strange to just target one source of emissions.

Batteries are heavy.

Sorry, I mean: Electrification of flights is challenging because current electricity storage technologies are very heavy in relation to how much energy they can provide.

10,000 kg of jet fuel delivers around 400,000 MJ of propulsion; to get the same power from a lithium-ion battery it would weigh over 200,000 kg

But people are working on it, with hybrid solutions looking promising.

Hybrid and electric flight

Promising propulsion concepts such as electrification and hybrid-powered flight will revolutionise the future of flight.

www.airbus.com

 

[Tallman]

Re the article - I wonder if this is Electric cars struggling or increased competition from Chinese EV cars?

In the mean time, just like with anything else I buy, it’s a function of what makes sense and what feels good - in my view. Some people are early adaptors and sometimes they get burnt when they are too early. Some people are laggards and in general they get burnt more when the tides change as they inevitably do.

As a certified petrolhead I enjoy my ICE’s more than most but I also enjoy my little i3 EV more than most (who probably never even tried one).

 

[MarkMas]

Re the article - I wonder if this is Electric cars struggling or increased competition from Chinese EV cars?
.....

There is a chart somewhere (I can't find it right now) that suggests that US E car sales are declining rapidly; but actually the detailed data shows that ALL brands are increasing, except Tesla, which is falling through the floor, making the total look bad.

 

[zagatoes30]

Electricity is a second hand fuel, something has to create it (short of us plugging into a lightening bolt). Now if all EVs only used recycled energy solar, wind etc, they might have an argument but across the world they don't. Factor in the complex nature of modern batteries, the mining involved to get the key components and then shipping them, on ships that use mineral fuels, the case starts to fall apart. There is no argument that at point of use EVs are clean but when you factor in the whole production process the case becomes some what weaker.

The key issue is our constant desire to have something new, there is nothing wrong with the make do and mend there is no reason to change your car (or any other consumable) every 2 or 3 years other than want. If we want a better world then curb our wants.

 

[DLax69]

Drugs are bad.

Which?

 

[DLax69]

And apparently the Apple Car Play is bad, or something, based on another thread I just revisited.

 

[allandwf]

Which?

South Park told me, so must be true

 

[midlifecrisis]

Out of interest, to me anyway, what is being done if anything re electrification of flights? It seems strange to just target one source of emissions.

Sustainable fuels instead. We're no mugs in aviation. Batteries are always heavy rather than a diminishing load that uses 70% of it's fuel from the atmosphere

 

[JMS]

Sorry, I mean: Electrification of flights is challenging because current electricity storage technologies are very heavy in relation to how much energy they can provide.

10,000 kg of jet fuel delivers around 400,000 MJ of propulsion; to get the same power from a lithium-ion battery it would weigh over 200,000 kg

But people are working on it, with hybrid solutions looking promising.

Hybrid and electric flight

Promising propulsion concepts such as electrification and hybrid-powered flight will revolutionise the future of flight.

www.airbus.com

I work for Rolls-Royce (aero engines, not cars).
We have backed both horses, as in, we have powered electric aircraft and also engines that run on sustainable aviation fuel(SAF). The current challenge is legislation on how much %mix of SAF is permitted.
You may have missed this in the news. An exercise to prove to authorities that SAF is perfectly safe.

Flight 100 – Our role in enabling the first transatlantic sustainable fuel flight | Civil Aviation Authority

28 November 2023 history was made. Virgin Atlantic flew the first UK transatlantic flight using 100 per cent sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) from London Heathrow to New York’s JFK Airport, representing the start of a greener age in aviation.

www.caa.co.uk

 

[Sam McGoo]

I don't totally hate EV. They are definitely a good thing areas where air pollution is a problem.

I do hate being told that moving to EV is the best thing to do for the environment.

If was about the environment and not about making money, manufacturers would be making smaller, lighter cars. Not massive heavy SUVs.

The greenest thing to do, is to keep cars for longer periods and slow the production of new stuff.

I can drive my 4.7litre V8 petrol for 9 years (5kmiles a year) before it produces the same amount of Co2 as just the manufacturing of a Polestar 2 EV.

 

[Sam McGoo]

Because someone will ask.....

Polestar 2 manufacturing 26.2 tonnes CO2.

GT = 360g/km co2 driven

Therefore 26200000 / 360 = 72778kms or 45222miles

45k miles to your average maserati driver must be more like 20 years driving! Lol.