Bye Bye Maserati

[urbanmaser]

Is it me or is anyone else sceptical of this rumoured alliance between Maserati and Chrysler?????

Over the years Maserati has had its ups and downs. Everytime Maserati stray from what they do best it always seems to end in tears and I just fear that the magic and exclusitivity of the brand is going to be watered down once again if they start dropping Chrysler engines into their cars. Whilst Maserati are not currently making their own engines there is a huge difference between saying my Maserati is fitted with an engine made by Ferrari or my Maserati is powered by an engine by Chrysler no matter what power is delivered by any proposed Chrysler engine. Imagine saying that my Aston Martin is powered by an engine made by Vauxhall.

I just feel the brand is about to embark on a journey to start selling to the masses turning an exclusive mark into just another main stream car manufacturer like BMW or Mercedes and I hate the thought of that. The mystique and exclusitivity for me will be all but lost with only the classic cars perhaps retaining their demand.

I keep thinking about the differences between the 3.2 V6 made by Alfa Romeo found in their GT, GTV and GTA car the 3.2 litre Chrysler derived engine found in the Brerra. There is no comparison.

It is not even as if they are proposing the alliance with just a brand new cheaper sports car and this dreaded SUV. That is bad enough. The talk is also being directed at replacing the Ferrari engines found in the Granturismo , GTS and QP with the same or similar Chrysler units.

I understand that the Ferrari engines are just too thirsty and were never designed to propel such heavy weight cars but surely Maserati would do better to redesign their cars to make them lighter rather than to compromise the engines.

The last models which can be considered pure will be the 3200, 4200 and Gransports and for that reason I have made my mind up that I am going to stick with my Gransport until such time I can afford a Ferrari 599, 612 or maybe a mint 575.

Yes I know that the current crop of Maseratis are Ferrari driven but with Chrysler engines going into these models too they no longer hold the same magic for me.

Maybe Matt is not so dumb when he was considering whether to buy a GTS or to keep the Alfa Romeo he has on order. At least the Alfa Romeo will be exclusive.

Sorry Maserati you may end up capturing a new market short term, but for me you are going to lose in the long run. Leave BMW, Audi and Mercedes to continue with what they do best and concentrate on doing what you do best.

 

[NickP]

I agree with those sentiments Peter, well said.

 

[Parisien]

Yes Peter, can understand your "rant"...but if we look back, and indeed forward at many of the long living marques, Maserati does seem to have had one of the most rollercoaster type rides of all.

Survival of the marque is preeminent in the boardroom of those who run the marque, as in nature the instinct to draw your next breath can be truly difficult to resist, regardless of the fallout or cost.

At this moment in time, it seems bizarre that in a 10 yr period the marque has gone from being a totally has-been marque to a phoenix like revival, one of the greatest ever come backs, no ifs or buts.

I am only in the conference league as regards appreciation and knowledge of supercars cars compared the vast majority of the guys off here, but the enjoyment and pleasure I've experienced with my 4200 has been wonderfully rewarding.

Who knows what the future holds, but for the moment the life blood and heritage of the recently revived Maserati is being cherished in many countries and groups, not least our forum.

Long live Maserati....even if its pedigree is about to be diluted again.


P

 

[urbanmaser]

Yes Peter, can understand your "rant"...but if we look back, and indeed forward at many of the long living marques, Maserati does seem to have had one of the most rollercoaster type rides of all.

Survival of the marque is preeminent in the boardroom of those who run the marque, as in nature the instinct to draw your next breath can be truly difficult to resist, regardless of the fallout or cost.

At this moment in time, it seems bizarre that in a 10 yr period the marque has gone from being a totally has-been marque to a phoenix like revival, one of the greatest ever come backs, no ifs or buts.

I am only in the conference league as regards appreciation and knowledge of supercars cars compared the vast majority of the guys off here, but the enjoyment and pleasure I've experienced with my 4200 has been wonderfully rewarding.

Who knows what the future holds, but for the moment the life blood and heritage of the recently revived Maserati is being cherished in many countries and groups, not least our forum.

Long live Maserati....even if its pedigree is about to be diluted again.


P

I totally agree with you Frank it has been a remarkable 10 year come back abeit it took a Ferrari injection to make it happen. It does not alter the fact that I want to own a Maserati/Ferrari and not a Maserati/Chrysler

 

[BennyD]

Good points. However, perhaps the revival was down to the Ferrari tie up. Using a Ferrari engine is not going to hurt sales in the prestige car market but using pig-iron boat anchors from a humdrum american car maker almost certainly will. I bought my Maserati because of its driving dynamics and Italian performance whereas in the future people will end up buying them for the badge, not what is behind the badge. And that, IMO, is a great shame. Time will tel.

 

[urbanmaser]

Good points. However, perhaps the revival was down to the Ferrari tie up. Using a Ferrari engine is not going to hurt sales in the prestige car market but using pig-iron boat anchors from a humdrum american car maker almost certainly will. I bought my Maserati because of its driving dynamics and Italian performance whereas in the future people will end up buying them for the badge, not what is behind the badge. And that, IMO, is a great shame. Time will tel.

Benny not often I agree with you but I am with you 500% on this one

 

[Parisien]

Guys, an ever dwindling number of buyers bought them when they were a more "pure" marque........down to 700/800 cars being sold in 1997 or so.....the marque was dead, the cars were poor, not worthy of the name or heritage, only for the Ferrari tie up...it was gone

P

 

[Parisien]

Option in 1997 .....was buy to a S*H*I*T true Maserati........or not.................................most people didn't......


P

 

[dem maser]

Its sad, hang on to your masers.....the last real maseratis.....

 

[conaero]

Urby, thank you for the not so dumb quote I think there was a compliment in there somewhere.

The GTS might be one of the last V8's and I think in the long run this will stand it in good stead.

I have decided now that what I am going to do is indeed buy the GTS at Xmas, then see how this Alfa turns out. If its what they promised, I am going to order it and sell the GTS aslong as I dont fall in love with the GTS that is. The only thing I dont like about the Alfa is the size and weight, ok, probably its strong point, but I do like a car of substance and luxury, hence my love affair with the past decade of Maserati cars.

I see Maserati returning back to a V6 turbo unit, and I am sure it will be very good, but it will indeed loose its allure, its exlusivity and the Chrysler unit is being selected so as to lure the Americans to the brand, if they know it has the base of an American engine, it will be able to be serviced at any local Chrysler dealership, plus Maserati can very cost effectively expand their US dealer network by simply branding the current Chrysler network.

It this the way to go, well, the money men are calling the shots. The other matter that I think does not get talked about is that Ferrari will be sunsetting the 4.2 V8 they supply to Maserati, and I dont believe they want to supply the new bread of V8 as found in the 458.

I think Ferrari were forced by Fiat to do a job on Maserati, they have done that, and now they feel they should be aloud to back away now and let Maserati stand on its own 2 feet.

My concern, lets look at the last time Maserati/Chrysler tied up their resources:

 

[urbanmaser]

Not all together true Frank I am afraid the Biturbo as un Maserati as it was actually saved Maserati from bankruptcy and between 1981 and 1987 sold 9,210 cars in their various guises making it one of the most successful cars ever produced in Maserati history. From 1987 to the end of the 90's Maserati floated around like a ship without a rudder producing the Ghibili, Karif and Shamal which sold in such limited numbers that they were heading towards financial ruin undoing everything that the biturbo had achioeved.

Whilst the Biturbo saved them in the 80's it also managed to drag their name to an all time low as a manufacturer of exclusive GT's

 

[Parisien]

Vomit on 4 wheels.

P

 

[markp4200]

Excellent thread.
One of our cherished viewpoints.
Like all of you, I bought Maserati for its heritage, its engines and its cachet.
A new range of engines from the US mainstream will affect those who enjoy the pleasure of owning a real car, but; and I am bound to say, that straying from that heritage will introduce a whole new market if the rest of the product is good/very good.
We only have to look elsewhere to see this happening. In my opinion Bentley, and especially Jaguar are not considering their loyal fan-base but looking to numbers and new markets. For this reason I rather think that our beloved Maserati may do similarly.
My one and only consolation is that the Maserati marque will survive and probably grow but will leave behind those of us who cherish our true Maseratis.
This is a brand with a chequered history and has risen, with each crisis, and now reached new highs. Whilst, I for one, thank Fait's intervention and their use of Ferrari expertise, I also know that it is now building from strength; something not seen for many decades.

Thank you UM for your insight and thoughts.
You are not alone and I still love to read about 3500GTs, 5000Gts. Indys, Boras, Khamsins and the gorgeous Shamals (Yes, I may be in a minority but I do love them!). These are names to savour and remember.

The top and bottom of it is that I will be retaining my piece of Italian exotica for as many years as I can and have no intention of chasing tails to keep up with the brand. Then will have to wait and see where we are in another 5 years or so.

 

[Parisien]

Not all together true Frank I am afraid the Biturbo as un Maserati as it was actually saved Maserati from bankruptcy and between 1981 and 1987 sold 9,210 cars in their various guises making it one of the most successful cars ever produced in Maserati history. From 1987 to the end of the 90's Maserati floated around like a ship without a rudder producing the Ghibili, Karif and Shamal which sold in such limited numbers that they were heading towards financial ruin undoing everything that the biturbo had achioeved.

Whilst the Biturbo saved them in the 80's it also managed to drag their name to an all time low as a manufacturer of exclusive GT's

Curates egg then Peter.....failed to keep developing and innovating ....relied too much on it......


P

 

[Parisien]

If it was a Maserati designed and built engine........whole car assemble in USA make a difference?

Or Maserati engine designed and made and then assembled in USA make a difference...and car then assembled in USA? Or vice versa...engine shipped over to Italy for final assembly insertion?

Lots of options and considerations before we drive those nails into the coffin lid.


P

 

[Maser Sod]

There's a hint of 70's about that car, can't put my finger on it. (the one below)

 

[urbanmaser]

Urby, thank you for the not so dumb quote I think there was a compliment in there somewhere.

The GTS might be one of the last V8's and I think in the long run this will stand it in good stead.

I have decided now that what I am going to do is indeed buy the GTS at Xmas, then see how this Alfa turns out. If its what they promised, I am going to order it and sell the GTS aslong as I dont fall in love with the GTS that is. The only thing I dont like about the Alfa is the size and weight, ok, probably its strong point, but I do like a car of substance and luxury, hence my love affair with the past decade of Maserati cars.

I see Maserati returning back to a V6 turbo unit, and I am sure it will be very good, but it will indeed loose its allure, its exlusivity and the Chrysler unit is being selected so as to lure the Americans to the brand, if they know it has the base of an American engine, it will be able to be serviced at any local Chrysler dealership, plus Maserati can very cost effectively expand their US dealer network by simply branding the current Chrysler network.

It this the way to go, well, the money men are calling the shots. The other matter that I think does not get talked about is that Ferrari will be sunsetting the 4.2 V8 they supply to Maserati, and I dont believe they want to supply the new bread of V8 as found in the 458.

I think Ferrari were forced by Fiat to do a job on Maserati, they have done that, and now they feel they should be aloud to back away now and let Maserati stand on its own 2 feet.

My concern, lets look at the last time Maserati/Chrysler tied up their resources:

Matt the current GTS maybe remembered as the last true Maserati/Ferrari car providing the Chrysler unit is used in a brand new GTS body. I fear that will not be the case.

 

[urbanmaser]

Excellent thread.
One of our cherished viewpoints.
Like all of you, I bought Maserati for its heritage, its engines and its cachet.
A new range of engines from the US mainstream will affect those who enjoy the pleasure of owning a real car, but; and I am bound to say, that straying from that heritage will introduce a whole new market if the rest of the product is good/very good.
We only have to look elsewhere to see this happening. In my opinion Bentley, and especially Jaguar are not considering their loyal fan-base but looking to numbers and new markets. For this reason I rather think that our beloved Maserati may do similarly.
My one and only consolation is that the Maserati marque will survive and probably grow but will leave behind those of us who cherish our true Maseratis.
This is a brand with a chequered history and has risen, with each crisis, and now reached new highs. Whilst, I for one, thank Fait's intervention and their use of Ferrari expertise, I also know that it is now building from strength; something not seen for many decades.

Thank you UM for your insight and thoughts.
You are not alone and I still love to read about 3500GTs, 5000Gts. Indys, Boras, Khamsins and the gorgeous Shamals (Yes, I may be in a minority but I do love them!). These are names to savour and remember.

The top and bottom of it is that I will be retaining my piece of Italian exotica for as many years as I can and have no intention of chasing tails to keep up with the brand. Then will have to wait and see where we are in another 5 years or so.

If any good can come from bad it may actually turn the 3200, 4200 and Gransports into the same iconic cars as the 3500 and Bora as for sure they will be the last of the true Maseratis...........appreciating collectors cars

 

[urbanmaser]

QUOTE=Parisien;105323]If it was a Maserati designed and built engine........whole car assemble in USA make a difference?

Or Maserati engine designed and made and then assembled in USA make a difference...and car then assembled in USA? Or vice versa...engine shipped over to Italy for final assembly insertion?

Lots of options and considerations before we drive those nails into the coffin lid.


P[/QUOTE]


Frank it may well work out for Maserati and I hope for their sake it does. It just does not work for me and thats why I feel myself veering towards Ferrari for my next car. Maybe in another 20/30 years they will return to their roots and I will step back into Maserati ownership...............on second thoughts I won't be around........I will be in the Sunshine Home or 6 feet under [

 

[lozcb]

Im no economist, but i know what floats my boat and being a MR average kinda guy that sorta puts me in the same catergory as the majority where maserati ownership is concerned , so yes it beggars belief that they would take that kind of direction, If we take a look at the european market share of sales , in the past it has had a significant market share , Europes outlook over the next 10-20 years is bleak it has to be said so perhaps they are looking a bit too far ahead and pre-empting the ever increasing Asian growing markets , it has to be said China's Maserati sales in the last 3 years have nigh on doubled year on year ,

We as Brits in general ,have probably the largest quota of car buffs per capita head anywhere in the free world , so we understand and appreciate the needs for heritage/ prestige/Italian design and charisma that Maserati gives its owners , i fear the emerging Asian markets don't , nor does the pile em high sellem cheap attitude of the American market , for them its probably an added bonus and cred having a Chrysler lump deposited between the Maserati bowels, (altho Chrysler history is original German) but soon as the Yanks got there grubby mits on it , any signs of German reliability / innovation went straight out the window.

Im not surprised if this direction goes ahead , the Italian economy is on its knees , its currently about to join the ranks of Greece Ireland Spain and Portugal and the government is in no position to help out, if Fiat decides to shed the brand to make some much needed funds to bail out its other marques.

Lets hope someone else comes to the rescue , to enable Maserati to stay as close to its roots as possible , pretty sure Ferrari would be willing to negotiate further supply / be part of the design process for a new Maserati engine for future models


regards loz