Brexit Deal

Zep

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I think the issue is more how little respect the media has for most people in society. Also our adversarial form of democracy is now broken with the opposition and the media perpetually kicking the government that no sane person would want to be a politician. Go through several iterations of this and we have now got what we, collectively, deserve. One is no better than the other as they are all shambolic.
Isn’t this just a case of the media reporting statements from industry bodies. For example in this case, the statements attributed to the SMMT and it’s members that can be read here:


It strikes me that accurately reporting statements from industry bodies is the job of media outlets and has little or nothing to do with their respect or lack thereof of the public.

It is unclear if the SMMT or it’s members have heard of import substitution (I’m thinking maybe yes) and it is also unclear as to whether they are skewing things to suit their own ends (again, probably yes). But it should be noted that the SMMT are referring to impacts in both the U.K. and EU.
 

bigbob

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Isn’t this just a case of the media reporting statements from industry bodies. For example in this case, the statements attributed to the SMMT and it’s members that can be read here:


It strikes me that accurately reporting statements from industry bodies is the job of media outlets and has little or nothing to do with their respect or lack thereof of the public.

It is unclear if the SMMT or it’s members have heard of import substitution (I’m thinking maybe yes) and it is also unclear as to whether they are skewing things to suit their own ends (again, probably yes). But it should be noted that the SMMT are referring to impacts in both the U.K. and EU.
If the UK exports broadly the same number of cars to the EU as it imports (which is roughly right) then a same percentage tariff both ways (10% suggested) is a zero sum game. Customers will just move to buying more locally sourced cars so there are winners and losers intra-market but the overall situation should be unchanged so it is not a disaster. It is much easier for SMMT to have no tariffs as the status quo prevails and Nissan does not have to make wider range of cars in Sunderland to suit the UK market for example so less hassle. Ditto Mini might start making cars in Europe and the Mini plant may then make some BMWs to compensate. Jobs are not lost in aggregate it's just that jobs move around as there will be winners and losers within an economy and, yes, consumer choice will be reduced so we might buy an F Pace not an X5 even if we really want an X5. I don't agree with tariffs but they are not the aggregate disaster that is presented.

As for the media, a good journalist also gets a contra view, that's what they do in a democracy as they remain independent and report a balanced argument....normally but my point is that the media is now so anti Tory, anti Brexit etc etc that they are no longer fulfilling that role.
 

Zep

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I’ll take your word for it, although if that were true I suspect the SMMT might not be quite as strident about it. If you look at the motives, car makers are in business to make money, so if there is something that puts that at risk they will lobby to change it. If Brexit was a zero sum game, I doubt they would waste their time and effort talking about it.

As for the media, in this case, who would you suggest the media get the alternate view from? I don’t think there is another Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders to ask. Also I don’t see “media” with bias in any particular direction presenting an alternate view in a lot of cases. There is plenty of pro-brexit media out there that doesn’t present an alternative view and I would suggest it is in the interests of the consumer to examine the information and make a judgement, rather than say one party or the other should be more balanced. We live in the age of alternative facts after all.
 

bigbob

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I’ll take your word for it, although if that were true I suspect the SMMT might not be quite as strident about it. If you look at the motives, car makers are in business to make money, so if there is something that puts that at risk they will lobby to change it. If Brexit was a zero sum game, I doubt they would waste their time and effort talking about it.

As for the media, in this case, who would you suggest the media get the alternate view from? I don’t think there is another Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders to ask. Also I don’t see “media” with bias in any particular direction presenting an alternate view in a lot of cases. There is plenty of pro-brexit media out there that doesn’t present an alternative view and I would suggest it is in the interests of the consumer to examine the information and make a judgement, rather than say one party or the other should be more balanced. We live in the age of alternative facts after all.
They just need to go and find a Professor in Economics to explain it. It's not hard.

As for the SMMT, all big business wants no tariffs, no borders, one currency and the same regulatory regime everywhere; ie they want simplicity so they burn less overhead. BTW I did not say that Brexit was a zero sum game it's just that the automotive manufacturing sector is one where we broadly import what we export so it's an easy example to prove the point. It's funny that exporters moan about the likely tariffs they will have to pay in certain markets but fail to mention that sterling has tanked since the vote so most firms would be net up.
 

Zep

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They just need to go and find a Professor in Economics to explain it. It's not hard.

As for the SMMT, all big business wants no tariffs, no borders, one currency and the same regulatory regime everywhere; ie they want simplicity so they burn less overhead. BTW I did not say that Brexit was a zero sum game it's just that the automotive manufacturing sector is one where we broadly import what we export so it's an easy example to prove the point. It's funny that exporters moan about the likely tariffs they will have to pay in certain markets but fail to mention that sterling has tanked since the vote so most firms would be net up.
I don’t think it is incumbent on the media outlet to present both views in one article. If it was I would expect the front page of the Mail would read “INVASION! / HUMANITARIAN CRISIS”. Which of course, it doesn’t.

I have tried and failed to find an alternative view on the brexit impact on the motor industry, so maybe there isn’t one (apart from here of course). I did find reports by Delloite and a paper by David Bailey, Professor of Economics at Aston School of Business which seems to echo the SMMT statements.

There are Reuter’s articles that do present both sides, like this one. https://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKKBN2650LE?il=0 Here, I would suggest, there are equal and opposite points of view, both of which seem to be represented.
 
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bigbob

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I don’t think it is incumbent on the media outlet to present both views in one article. If it was I would expect the front page of the Mail would read “INVASION! / HUMANITARIAN CRISIS. Which of course, it doesn’t.

I have tried and failed to find an alternative view on the brexit impact on the motor industry, so maybe there isn’t one (apart from here of course). I did find reports by Delloite and a paper by David Bailey, Professor of Economics at Aston School of Business which seems to echo the SMMT statements.

There are Reuter’s articles that do present both sides, like this one. https://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKKBN2650LE?il=0 Here, I would suggest, there are equal and opposite points of view, both of which seem to be represented.
Fair point on the Mail. To me the BBC should be impartial and that is what I am listening to in the car but I seem to detect more one way bias than used to be the case in the media but maybe that's just my age.

The Reuters article was a good read - thanks.
 

Zep

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Fair point on the Mail. To me the BBC should be impartial and that is what I am listening to in the car but I seem to detect more one way bias than used to be the case in the media but maybe that's just my age.

The Reuters article was a good read - thanks.
I must say, I wouldn’t want to be a BBC news editor. As you say, people reasonably expect them to be unbiased, but it cuts both ways so too far in either direction will bring them plenty of ire. I read the app, but rarely listen to or watch their news programmes, so don’t have a frame of reference to judge it.
 

CatmanV2

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I think there's another aspect here that this is reporting on opinion (SMMT's) vs reporting on facts. It's a fact that this is the SMMT's opinion....

Or maybe not

C
 
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Wanderer

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The world is village now, people are aware of the shiitholes they live in and ***** the West shovels on them with arms, regime change etc.

We all want a better life and so do they, and really you can't blame anyone for seeking an exit from misery.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
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10,951
I dare say BoJo will blame the EU.
As will Farage....... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wouldn't it make a nice change if instead of spending their time blaming others, they just got on with solving the problems?

Just a thought. Or maybe just wishful thinking.
 

philw696

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I saw Farage is currently on a boat in the Channel doing his migrant watch and some of the comments are Disgraceful very sad indeed.
He keeps winding the situation up.
 

Rwc13

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1,460
Unless I read the article incorrectly, this was caused by an accident on the A20 yesterday. So what has it got to do with Brexit? Precisely nothing?
 

GeoffCapes

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Unless I read the article incorrectly, this was caused by an accident on the A20 yesterday. So what has it got to do with Brexit? Precisely nothing?
Nope. There was an accident yesterday, to add to things.

This is caused by increase security checks at Dover and the Channel Tunnel, these are what are being put in place because of Brexit as in all likelihood there will be no deal.

Just as an update. Operation Stack is now being implemented, so this will mean that between Maidstone and Ashford, 18 miles of the M20 will be turned into a lorry park.

And the idiots down here voted for this sh*t!
 

Rwc13

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No sorry, still don’t get it. There was an accident yesterday, and there are police security checks going on. What have either of these got to do with Brexit? Operation stack has been implemented as a way to deal with these two things, not because of Brexit.
 

GeoffCapes

Centenary Club
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10,951
No sorry, still don’t get it. There was an accident yesterday, and there are police security checks going on. What have either of these got to do with Brexit? Operation stack has been implemented as a way to deal with these two things, not because of Brexit.
This is a taste of things to come.

Currently lorries can pass through and board the Chunnel or get on a ferry in about 45 seconds due to the agreements in place with the EU.

It has been suggested that this time will go up to at least 5 minutes per vehicle.

The delays for the two few days have only been for an extra few minutes per vehicle and have caused absolute chaos where my office is.
Brexit will make this situation far far worse.

Fortunately I won't be living in Ashford in 10 days!!!!
 

D Walker

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8,739
Hardly see what it has to do with Brexit, it’s been running since early 2000’s as far as I can remember, ding delayed because of it....
 

Silvercat

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899
What a calamitous fk up this tory government are.
They remind me of the mid-90's Major government who were up necks in sleaze, shagging 'models' and getting hands caught in the till. Major himself telling single mothers they were slags but he himself was shagging Edwina Currie. Blair was a relief from that but he turned out to be bad invading I-rack. Brown sold gold low, financial genius. Cameron couldn't control the right, fked us royally and is probably making a mint after dinner talking. Less said about whatsherface, now Boris who's brought us full circle to the 90's sleaze.
So the moral of the story is never trust a politician, whatever party they come from, they are all full of sh!t.