Brexit Deal

[Wattie]

I actually said :-

I can see it falling back to around the $800 an ounce figure before a concerted rise. (of course I may be wrong and often am, but DYOR as always).

$829 it went to. Wasn't too far out. Bearing in mind this was Feb 2016, and the price was up around $890.

I think I was pretty much spot on with the rest.

You’re Correct, I apologies

 

[Wattie]

Break time!...and breath 1 2 3

View attachment 58858

If you look up “ample” in the dictionary it has her picture.

 

[zagatoes30]

Break time!...and breath 1 2 3

View attachment 58858

Sorry I can only count 2, maybe I should study the photo more

 

[Swedish Paul]

Aren’t taxes in Sweden mental.......and it’s a little chilly, but on the upside it has Swedish Erotica!

Yes. And no. Basic tax rate is 31%. Goes up to 40% over 40k ish. However....

No such thing as council tax.
Tax deductions on all loans/mortgages.
Basic pension is 15k year.
You insure the car not the driver
4 weeks vacation in the summer.
Free child care.
Very good paternity benefits.
Free university education.

I would rather pay in a bit more and enjoy a better quality of life. And of course, it helps for everyone to have a good living standard.

When you take into account all the stealth taxes in the uk if you don’t live like a monk, then money wise, I would say there is hardly any difference.

 

[MaserCoupe]

That’s a good point but if politicians had been honest from day 1 this would have come as no surprise. It’s not project fear, it’s project prepare. The fear is from those wishing to remain.
Leavers see it as preparation.

Europe doesn’t want us to leave. Indeed they don’t allow anyone to leave.
Our previous inept Pm effectively removed “no deal” from her negotiation and subsequently negotiated a dreadful deal -without threatening we would walk if it wasn’t better.
This was overwhelmingly rejected, 3 times.

Remember leaving with no deal isn’t in Europe’s interests too.....which is why a better deal is required.
At the moment, the current deal is 90/10 in the Eu favour.
That could plummet to 0/0 in no deal
Or it could go 60/40 with a renegotiation which with Europe’s current economic situation would be better for them.

Europe has to accept that countries may wish to leave.

spending billions preparing for such is prudent- fact is it should have been done from day 1.

Oh Wattie, What better deal are you asking for? Remaining? No trade talks without a withdrawal agreement..you want a better deal? Ok what does Britain want? To keep existing benefits of membership while simultaneously doing what it wants and not complying with the membership rules and treaties or the four freedoms. Ok So how would you sell that to them?
Yes us leaving is bad for Europe but it’s worse for us and remember the other 27 countries signed up to the single market are trading to the rest of the world so why would you think we could offer any better (or better terms) to the rest of the world that they don’t already have with the EU? The US Congress has already stated it won’t pass any trade deal if Ireland is compromised as they invested heavily politically in the Good Friday agreement.

As far as politicians being honest, do you mean the likes of JRM, Boris, Farage, Raab the ERG and the like who are of course the pillars of integrity and honesty? Yeah right.

As far as Europe keeping us and others as prisoners, well that’s delusional, misleading and a complete nonsense. Why persist with playing that victim card? Britain simply doesn’t like fact that it is being treated as an equal rather than a superior player to other EU countries. Well when every leader of the world hypes it’s people and says you are the best......this is what you get. False sense of self importance.

So we leave, what better deal apart from remaining do you want the EU27 to give...

Answers on a postcard please and send to PO. Box 10 Downing St, London

 

[Wattie]

Oh Wattie, What better deal are you asking for? Remaining? No trade talks without a withdrawal agreement..you want a better deal? Ok what does Britain want? To keep existing benefits of membership while simultaneously doing what it wants and not complying with the membership rules and treaties or the four freedoms. Ok So how would you sell that to them?
Yes us leaving is bad for Europe but it’s worse for us and remember the other 27 countries signed up to the single market are trading to the rest of the world so why would you think we could offer any better (or better terms) to the rest of the world that they don’t already have with the EU? The US Congress has already stated it won’t pass any trade deal if Ireland is compromised as they invested heavily politically in the Good Friday agreement.

As far as politicians being honest, do you mean the likes of JRM, Boris, Farage, Raab the ERG and the like who are of course the pillars of integrity and honesty? Yeah right.

As far as Europe keeping us and others as prisoners, well that’s delusional, misleading and a complete nonsense. Why persist with playing that victim card? Britain simply doesn’t like fact that it is being treated as an equal rather than a superior player to other EU countries. Well when every leader of the world hypes it’s people and says you are the best......this is what you get. False sense of self importance.

So we leave, what better deal apart from remaining do you want the EU27 to give...

Answers on a postcard please and send to PO. Box 10 Downing St, London

No deal is fine with me,
it’s better than Mays deal which has a legal position of zero- Europe controls us under those terms. Not a single individual voted leave to allow Europe to determine if or when they would let us leave.did they?

The political declaration is a Santa wish list.

So you’re delusional and misled if you think anything otherwise.
The law is the law, that’s why we take legal advice....the legal advice said we cannot get out of it.

So, no deal is better than a bad deal.

The 3 times rejected May deal should scare the **** out of both leavers and remainers cos it turn the Uk into a European colony with no say, zero.

“Britain simply doesn’t like fact that it is being treated as an equal rather than a superior player to other EU countries”

I’ve no problem whatsoever with the Uk being treated like an equal.....no problem, by the way our economy is far better than most European ones.
So, when they say it’s Mays deal or that’s it.
I say, fu, it’s diabolical, we’re not accepting that sold down the river ****.
We’re offski with no deal cos that is far far superior.
If you change your mind let us know.

Anyway, dunno why you’re worried, you’re offski aren’t you.....nirvana beckons

“Passport ready and bang up to date! Battening down the hatches and getting ready to run. “Ponzi” Europe here I come......if it’s good enough for Brexiteers JRM and his money, Lawson and Lord Lilley to live then it’s good enough for me. ”

 

[MaserCoupe]

No deal is fine with me,
it’s better than Mays deal which has a legal position of zero- Europe controls us under those terms. Not a single individual voted leave to allow Europe to determine if or when they would let us leave.did they?

The political declaration is a Santa wish list.

So you’re delusional and misled if you think anything otherwise.
The law is the law, that’s why we take legal advice....the legal advice said we cannot get out of it.

So, no deal is better than a bad deal.

The 3 times rejected May deal should scare the **** out of both leavers and remainers cos it turn the Uk into a European colony with no say, zero.

“Britain simply doesn’t like fact that it is being treated as an equal rather than a superior player to other EU countries”

I’ve no problem whatsoever with the Uk being treated like an equal.....no problem, by the way our economy is far better than most European ones.
So, when they say it’s Mays deal or that’s it.
I say, fu, it’s diabolical, we’re not accepting that sold down the river ****.
We’re offski with no deal cos that is far far superior.
If you change your mind let us know.

Anyway, dunno why you’re worried, you’re offski aren’t you.....nirvana beckons

“Passport ready and bang up to date! Battening down the hatches and getting ready to run. “Ponzi” Europe here I come......if it’s good enough for Brexiteers JRM and his money, Lawson and Lord Lilley to live then it’s good enough for me. ”

Yeah freedom of movement is great isn’t it and the only people selling us down the river and diminishing us are our very own politicians

 

[philw696]

 

[MaserCoupe]

View attachment 58899

A’int that the truth , boobilicious....

 

[Wattie]

Yeah freedom of movement is great isn’t it and the only people selling us down the river and diminishing us are our very own politicians

Well under no deal you might find it problematic moving to Europe....

Actually our politicians are finally doing the job they were elected to do years ago - which they all agreed.

Deliver Brexit -After the majority voted for it.

That involved negotiation and so far we don’t like what’s been negotiated so we’re saying there’s no deal. Which we are entitled to do.
If the Eu’s politicians re-asses the situation then maybe we can sort this thing out.
If not, that ok because thats their entitlement too.

I would suggest that the current standoff gives an insight into how difficult any future negotiation with the Eu would be on the “political declaration”. where both hands would be tied behind our back. We’d be fodder.

 

[philw696]

 

[MaserCoupe]

Well under no deal you might find it problematic moving to Europe....

Actually our politicians are finally doing the job they were elected to do years ago - which they all agreed.

Deliver Brexit -After the majority voted for it.

That involved negotiation and so far we don’t like what’s been negotiated so we’re saying there’s no deal. Which we are entitled to do.
If the Eu’s politicians re-asses the situation then maybe we can sort this thing out.
If not, that ok because thats their entitlement too.

I would suggest that the current standoff gives an insight into how difficult any future negotiation with the Eu would be on the “political declaration”. where both hands would be tied behind our back. We’d be fodder.

Yeah that’s right we set the redlines based on apparently what people were concerned about like immigration, sovereignty, control of money, laws, borders blah blah blah and then we produced our withdrawal agreement based on that, then simultaneously we the U.K. produce the backstop (which the EU27 agree to and conceded to the U.K.) which we the U.K. now doesn’t like. So yes you highlight really well that our own headbanger politicians are inept and you again highlight it beautifully when you say

“I would suggest that the current standoff gives an insight into how difficult any future negotiation with the Eu would be on the “political declaration”. where both hands would be tied behind our back. We’d be fodder”.

So doesn’t it make more sense in being an equal member or part of a membership that stands up for itself on the global stage as a collective? Or is that too much an “identity issue” for us.....
But........now the really important question of the day is, who’s gonna win the Hungarian Grand Prix today peeps?

 

[Phil H]

But........now the really important question of the day is, who’s gonna win the Hungarian Grand Prix today peeps?

Hamilton

PH

 

[Wattie]

Yeah that’s right we set the redlines based on apparently what people were concerned about like immigration, sovereignty, control of money, laws, borders blah blah blah and then we produced our withdrawal agreement based on that, then simultaneously we the U.K. produce the backstop (which the EU27 agree to and conceded to the U.K.) which we the U.K. now doesn’t like. So yes you highlight really well that our own headbanger politicians are inept and you again highlight it beautifully when you say

“I would suggest that the current standoff gives an insight into how difficult any future negotiation with the Eu would be on the “political declaration”. where both hands would be tied behind our back. We’d be fodder”.

So doesn’t it make more sense in being an equal member or part of a membership that stands up for itself on the global stage as a collective? Or is that too much an “identity issue” for us.....
But........now the really important question of the day is, who’s gonna win the Hungarian Grand Prix today peeps?

Umm, May produced the backstop....against all the advice, wasn’t even needed! She ignored her own ministers.
Hence it’s rejection by everyone. The Eu is now trying to hang us with her idiocy.
Ummm No, no thanks, get lost.

People voted to leave your collective membership idea, so we’ve had enough of that.

Hamilton, Verstappen 2nd.

 

[MaserCoupe]

Umm, May produced the backstop....against all the advice, wasn’t even needed! She ignored her own ministers.
Hence it’s rejection by everyone. The Eu is now trying to hang us with her idiocy.
Ummm No, no thanks, get lost.

People voted to leave your collective membership idea, so we’ve had enough of that.

Hamilton, Verstappen 2nd.

Yeah but Wattie we are all still waiting for you to put your “Remainer hat” on and answer Zep’s question from a few pages back. Funny not many Brexiteers tried or had a go at answering that.....it was fun and brilliantly liberating

 

[Zep]

I am finding the situation we are in both scary and interesting. Scary because we might end up with a situation where a “negotiating position” becomes a reality. Interesting because it makes a strong argument that reality is just a construct, some sort of Orwellian distopia.

Dominic Rabb this week said he talked about the no-deal scenario during the brexit campaign. He was then comprehensively fact checked and this was found not to be true. No other politicians in the Leave Campaign talked about the no deal scenario during the campaign, in fact they said that the EU would happily do a good deal as they needed our economic power. They did a deal, unsurprisingly a lot of people didn’t like it.

There was no mention of the cost of negotiation, the cost of beefing up the civil service to do the work that parts of the EU currently carried out for example the 2000 new border force officers. This was Project Fear.

I distinctly remember having a discussion with several people (and it was a discussion, no name calling or judgements on their intellect, just expressing an opinion in both directions, about the work that the EU did that we didn’t), that we would have significant increases in the cost of running the country that weren’t being factored into the campaign maths.

In the end the campaign, that was narrowly won, but was indeed won, was based on a low cost of leaving - after all, we were going to have loads of money for the NHS - and an improved working relationship with the EU.

Now we see that those “Project Fear” scenarios are now “Project Preparedness” scenarios, something that was a logical progression from the things that were talked about in the campaign and in no way something that was swept under the carpet to avoid complicating the message that won the day.

The mandate for an orderly and prosperous Brexit has been bent and skewed into a mandate for No Deal by the hardliners which is now being marketed as a barely credible “We would like a deal, but we will leave come what may” and certain politicians are suggesting that this is what they expected and talked about at the time. They didn’t.

So, it seems that what was said at the time does not in fact shape policy. The (unexpectedly for the Leave campaign) tough approach from the EU to protect the rest of its project is portrayed as a weakness in Theresa May’s negotiation skills (I understand from people who should know that this is deeply unfair, she had a reputation as an incredibly tough negotiator), and has now been replaced with a belligerent approach, by people who really don’t want it to succeed.

So we have transitioned from “Leaving will be easy, vote for it” and “all that stuff about economic impacts is project fear” to “Leaving will be difficult and expensive and we must prepare for it, that’s why we are spending all this money” but the mandate, the democratic will of the people that is mentioned so much, hasn’t changed one iota, but it is certainly wearing new lipstick.

Reality is just a construct, what happened is what we are told happened, not what we remember. The Matrix has you.

 

[MaserCoupe]

While I am finding the situation we are in both scary and interesting. Scary because we might end up with a situation where a “negotiating position” becomes a reality. Interesting because it makes a strong argument that reality is just a construct, some sort of Orwellian distopia.

Dominic Rabb this week said he talked about the no-deal scenario during the brexit campaign. He was then comprehensively fact checked and this was found not to be true. No other politicians in the Leave Campaign talked about the no deal scenario during the campaign, in fact they said that the EU would happily do a good deal as they needed our economic power. They did a deal, unsurprisingly a lot of people didn’t like it.

There was no mention of the cost of negotiation, the cost of beefing up the civil service to do the work that parts of the EU currently carried out for example the 2000 new border force officers. This was Project Fear.

I distinctly remember having a discussion with several people (and it was a discussion, no name calling or judgements on their intellect, just expressing an opinion in both directions, about the work that the EU did that we didn’t), that we would have significant increases in the cost of running the country that weren’t being factored into the campaign maths.

In the end the campaign, that was narrowly won, but was indeed won, was based on a low cost of leaving - after all, we were going to have loads of money for the NHS - and an improved working relationship with the EU.

Now we see that those “Project Fear” scenarios are now “Project Preparedness” scenarios, something that was a logical progression from the things that were talked about in the campaign and in no way something that was swept under the carpet to avoid complicating the message that won the day.

The mandate for an orderly and prosperous Brexit has been bent and skewed into a mandate for No Deal by the hardliners which is now being marketed as a barely credible “We would like a deal, but we will leave come what may” and certain politicians are suggesting that this is what they expected and talked about at the time. They didn’t.

So, it seems that what was said at the time does not in fact shape policy. The (unexpectedly for the Leave campaign) tough approach from the EU to protect the rest of its project is portrayed as a weakness in Theresa May’s negotiation skills (I understand from people who should know that this is deeply unfair, she had a reputation as an incredibly tough negotiator), and has now been replaced with a belligerent approach, by people who really don’t want it to succeed.

So we have transitioned from “Leaving will be easy, vote for it” and “all that stuff about economic impacts is project fear” to “Leaving will be difficult and expensive and we must prepare for it, that’s why we are spending all this money” but the mandate, the democratic will of the people that is mentioned so much, hasn’t changed one iota, but it is certainly wearing new lipstick.

Reality is just a construct, what happened is what we are told happened, not what we remember. The Matrix has you.

This is it exactly. Interesting to see how the narrative is being subtly tweaked by and with Dominic Cummings (being brought on board by BJ). Crikey he’s got his hands full in simultaneously trying to appease hardliners of the ERG and moderate Tory Brexiteers. It was hilarious to read Dominic’s take on the ERG (being himself the chief campaigner/ his brainchild for leave).

 

[midlifecrisis]

Yes. And no. Basic tax rate is 31%. Goes up to 40% over 40k ish. However....

No such thing as council tax.
Tax deductions on all loans/mortgages.
Basic pension is 15k year.
You insure the car not the driver
4 weeks vacation in the summer.
Free child care.
Very good paternity benefits.
Free university education.

I would rather pay in a bit more and enjoy a better quality of life. And of course, it helps for everyone to have a good living standard.

When you take into account all the stealth taxes in the uk if you don’t live like a monk, then money wise, I would say there is hardly any difference.

Why take a holiday in a Swedish summer? If I was living there I'd go on holiday in the winter to somewhere in southern Europe.

 

[Swedish Paul]

Why take a holiday in a Swedish summer? If I was living there I'd go on holiday in the winter to somewhere in southern Europe.

I didn’t mention the 2-3 weeks vacation in the winter too

Anyway, what’s wrong with the Swedish summer? We haven’t seen any rain for 2-3 weeks. Light all night. Lots of food and beer.

 

[MrMickS]

We are going for no-deal. Everything else is a smoke screen to hang the blame on the EU.

The EU won’t accept Johnson’s new offer, because it’s not new and was rejected years ago, so we will spend £100m saying it’s the EUs fault.

This will be bought by enough people that Johnson will call an election to get a new five year term. The Brexit Party will disappear having lost it’s reason to exist.