Brexit Deal

[Zep]

That

Thats fair enough, but being British means we accept the result.
We get up and move on,
If we cannot accept results of key votes where our society is affected, by deciding that the majority vote will be respected where on earth does that leave us?

I would suggest it renders our society and it’s opinion meaningless and that we’ll be sheep whose future is determined by elites who think they know better.

But we don’t, that’s why we have different governments every few years and why the political parties change their positions on different issues periodically.

The cluster **** facing potential Tory leaders and that which is consuming the Labour Party is that they can either try to be hard enough to win the hard brexit block, but soft enough to bring enough of the other section with them, or completely at the other end of the scale. May, for her many, many faults, had the balls to try and it destroyed her. It will almost certainly do the same to the next one.

But we have to have enough vision to understand that the division in parliament reflects the division among the public as a whole.

To me, to honour the result of the referendum we have to recognise the intent of those voters. We can either estimate that or ask again. The maths we have done on the polls for the 23rd suggest that for many of those who voted leave did so not expecting a hard Brexit. Pushing for a hard exit there might be a loss of any exit.

 

[Wattie]

Perhaps we all need to think about what we would be willing to give up from our various positions in order to get most of what we want.

Maybe those with very little to give up have reached the ends of their tether and voted leave......and those with lots to lose sat smugly at home thinking it would never happen and didn’t even bother to vote.

 

[Wattie]

But we don’t, that’s why we have different governments every few years and why the political parties change their positions on different issues periodically.

The cluster **** facing potential Tory leaders and that which is consuming the Labour Party is that they can either try to be hard enough to win the hard brexit block, but soft enough to bring enough of the other section with them, or completely at the other end of the scale. May, for her many, many faults, had the balls to try and it destroyed her. It will almost certainly do the same to the next one.

But we have to have enough vision to understand that the division in parliament reflects the division among the public as a whole.

To me, to honour the result of the referendum we have to recognise the intent of those voters. We can either estimate that or ask again. The maths we have done on the polls for the 23rd suggest that for many of those who voted leave did so not expecting a hard Brexit. Pushing for a hard exit there might be a loss of any exit.

Hang on you don’t vote Tory to find they implement labour policies from day 1!

I agree, none of the 2 can now deliver, but you are ignoring the fact that those elected did so on a promise to deliver Brexit......they had no fecking intention.....yet they all voted to implement A50.

They have no clothes now, it’s bare for all to see. They serve themselves not those they were elected and swore to serve. Us.

Hence option Farage. I personally find it hilarious he is called “extreme”.

Whats more extreme than calling a binding vote, then ignoring the result.

Remainers know that the EU don’t negotiate for anyone to leave. Why would they....
To suggest we can’t leave without a deal, effectively their permission, is an insult to our sovereignty and everyone who voted “leave”- which is all we were asked.

 

[Zep]

and those with lots to lose sat smugly at home thinking it would never happen and didn’t even bother to vote.

Perhaps. And this is the danger of a second vote, the margins are so fine it’s hard to call either way and a different result will probably serve to divide further. This is why, to heal our differences, we have to tone down the rhetoric and start talking about it with respect for each other’s positions and intelligence.

It is possible to understand someone’s view even if you don’t agree with it, but the discussion won’t happen if we have names for people who disagree with us, in either direction.

 

[Zep]

Hang on you don’t vote Tory to find they implement labour policies from day 1!

I agree, none of the 2 can now deliver, but you are ignoring the fact that those elected did so on a promise to deliver Brexit......they had no fecking intention.....yet they all voted to implement A50.

They have no clothes now, it’s bare for all to see. They serve themselves not those they were elected and swore to serve. Us.

Hence option Farage. I personally find it hilarious he is called “extreme”.

Whats more extreme than calling a binding vote, then ignoring the result.

Remainers know that the EU don’t negotiate for anyone to leave. Why would they....
To suggest we can’t leave without a deal, effectively their permission, is an insult to our sovereignty and everyone who voted “leave”- which is all we were asked.

There is a lot more nuance in this than you are admitting here. They were elected on many issues, one of which was delivering Brexit. But what sort of Brexit?

The sort of Brexit I want, says absolutely everyone. But what is that?

 

[Wanderer]

If there has to be a referendum, it should be something like 60/40 for change, especially such a major change that Brexit is/was. Tiswas. Who remembers Tiswas?

 

[MaserCoupe]

If there has to be a referendum, it should be something like 60/40 for change, especially such a major change that Brexit is/was. Tiswas. Who remembers Tiswas?

And who really was the phantom flan flinger!!!

 

[Wattie]

Perhaps. And this is the danger of a second vote, the margins are so fine it’s hard to call either way and a different result will probably serve to divide further. This is why, to heal our differences, we have to tone down the rhetoric and start talking about it with respect for each other’s positions and intelligence.

It is possible to understand someone’s view even if you don’t agree with it, but the discussion won’t happen if we have names for people who disagree with us, in either direction.

I think in general that’s been done on this forum- to my knowledge there’s been no drastic mod intervention and there’s been a good balance of banter, bullsh#t and bravado. Others may feel differently. Hopefully no-ones been offended other than those on viagra.

Ok, gonna call it and watch Monaco.

 

[Wattie]

There is a lot more nuance in this than you are admitting here. They were elected on many issues, one of which was delivering Brexit. But what sort of Brexit?

The sort of brexit where “no deal was better than a bad deal” for starters......not a capitulation.

 

[Wattie]

If there has to be a referendum, it should be something like 60/40 for change, especially such a major change that Brexit is/was. Tiswas. Who remembers Tiswas?

Sally James.......

 

[Zep]

I think in general that’s been done on this forum- to my knowledge there’s been no drastic mod intervention and there’s been a good balance of banter, bullsh#t and bravado. Others may feel differently. Hopefully no-ones been offended other than those on viagra.

Ok, gonna call it and watch Monaco.

Totally agree, I was referring to the country as a whole, rather than our happy little cabal

Enjoy the race!

 

[Nibby]

Sally James.......

She was rather fit.

 

[D Walker]

60-40! Certainly guarantees that if you don't get the outcome you want you are safe in not implementing it.

 

[doodlebug]

60-40! Certainly guarantees that if you don't get the outcome you want you are safe in not implementing it.

Should have been 60:40 for the first one. Would have prevented all this misery and waste of money.

 

[Wanderer]

 

[MarkMas]

Should have been 60:40 for the first one. Would have prevented all this misery and waste of money.

Yes, and the opportunity for learning was there with the Scottish referendum (which as, by the way, also an Independence vs Union referendum). Or two thresholds: say, 65/45 we just go with the majority; 55/45 we shut up about it for 5 years and then vote again.

 

[lifes2short]

time for some titties fellas, this one's a tad X rated though, beware

 

[Wattie]

https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/the-road-to-le-mans-2019.27327/post-697501

 

[JonW]

I have no doubt that shortly our resident SMDRP members will start discussing the results of the European elections.

This little snippet surprised me:

Anti-Brexit parties - those wholeheartedly in favour of another referendum - collectively took about 40% of the vote, compared with 35% for the two parties in favour of leaving the EU without a deal.

In fact, if you focus just on who supports another referendum on the subject of leaving the EU, the split would be 55% voting for a referendum, 45% against...

 

[2b1ask1]

I have no doubt that shortly our resident SMDRP members will start discussing the results of the European elections.

This little snippet surprised me:

Anti-Brexit parties - those wholeheartedly in favour of another referendum - collectively took about 40% of the vote, compared with 35% for the two parties in favour of leaving the EU without a deal.

Simply - BRING IT ON

However you want to try and spin it, two party politics has been handed its notice, even if the dead in the water Cons’ insist on hanging on for the duration of the full term they are only going to delay their own demise.

The Biased Broadcasting Collaboration are doing their best to find some glimmer of status quo to hang onto, hilarious.