Brexit Deal

philw696 said:
I have learnt something this evening.
Why wasn't it explained like that at school in the 70'S.
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Mate you nailed it in one go! I was constantly asking my teacher in the sex education class, "yes miss that's all well and good you explaining it, but when do we get to do the practical"..................
 
MaserCoupe said:
.. I was constantly asking my teacher in the sex education class...
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We had Dr. Lee in the 1st year. Stout fella with an unfortunate vertical crease on his "mentum". Otherwise known as Bum Chin Lee. Until he grew a beard - you can guess the rest.
 
Rwc13 said:
I’m sorry Wattie, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I can’t agree with this. I do not believe that May’s deal will be worse than no deal as long as an UK/EU trade deal is agreed in a reasonable timescale, say two years, and there is a workable compromise on the back stop. If the EU don’t play ball in agreeing a trade deal, we would just leave anyway. There is not a thing the EU can do to stop us. And all the other EU countries that want to continue to trade with the UK will be pushing the EU to agree a deal that stops a future no deal outcome just as they are now. Your rather extreme view feels a bit “tabloid” headline, and just the sort of thing that undermines the Brexit positive positioning.
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You're incorrect, we cannot legally leave "Mays deal" without EU approval and that is the whole trouble with the position.....it has no time limit....

Any one single country can veto our leaving.
Just imagine......Spain- Nope you're not leaving until we get Gibralter.
France- nope unless our fishermen get even more North Sea access,
Greece- nope unless Jamie Oliver uses at least a litre of our olive oil as a dressing in each dish.....

How on earth did the PM think this was a good idea and run with it against ALL advice. The Eu have no incentive whatsoever to let us leave so why will they be reasonable with the future negotiations? They wont and we will be legally trapped.

Hence why it was so hated.......see the resignation letters, we have no bargaining power in future talks, no voice no nothing for as long as they decide.
Total surrender of our sovereignty.......that is the end of the UK and Brussels will make us their example to others.
 
rockits said:
If there was no European Union now and you tried to create one I just don't see how you would do it.
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Very slowly over 60 years , chipping away until you've got total control and can be president of Europe, until some ****** off pensioners go and **** it all up.
 
Wattie said:
You're incorrect, we cannot legally leave "Mays deal" without EU approval and that is the whole trouble with the position.....it has no time limit....

Any one single country can veto our leaving.
Just imagine......Spain- Nope you're not leaving until we get Gibralter.
France- nope unless our fishermen get even more North Sea access,
Greece- nope unless Jamie Oliver uses at least a litre of our olive oil as a dressing in each dish.....

How on earth did the PM think this was a good idea and run with it against ALL advice. The Eu have no incentive whatsoever to let us leave so why will they be reasonable with the future negotiations? They wont and we will be legally trapped.

Hence why it was so hated.......see the resignation letters, we have no bargaining power in future talks, no voice no nothing for as long as they decide.
Total surrender of our sovereignty.......that is the end of the UK and Brussels will make us their example to others.
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I agree with Wattie, there is no way in the world we can agree to May's deal. It is an abomination, a complete sh1tfest.
How someone who is intelligent enough to rise to the ranks of Prime Minister can think this is good for our country is beyond me. Was she born on planet Zog?

Someone on this thread said earlier they were going to vote Monster Raving Looney Party next election. I don't know if they were serious or not but that is EXACTLY what I am going to do as a protest vote.
 
Wattie said:
You're incorrect, we cannot legally leave "Mays deal" without EU approval and that is the whole trouble with the position.....it has no time limit....

Any one single country can veto our leaving.
Just imagine......Spain- Nope you're not leaving until we get Gibralter.
France- nope unless our fishermen get even more North Sea access,
Greece- nope unless Jamie Oliver uses at least a litre of our olive oil as a dressing in each dish.....

How on earth did the PM think this was a good idea and run with it against ALL advice. The Eu have no incentive whatsoever to let us leave so why will they be reasonable with the future negotiations? They wont and we will be legally trapped.

Hence why it was so hated.......see the resignation letters, we have no bargaining power in future talks, no voice no nothing for as long as they decide.
Total surrender of our sovereignty.......that is the end of the UK and Brussels will make us their example to others.
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So just explain to me how they are going to stop us leaving unilaterally if they fail to honor their side of the deal which is to negotiate in good faith a fair trade deal within a reasonable timeframe? What are they going to do? Take us to the European Court? Err has no power outside the EU. Come and arrest us all? Impose trade sanctions? Can you really see that happening with the world watching and without the business community being up in arms. This is all media and political opposition noise, the equivalent of Project Fear from the Leave side. Countries back out of supposedly unbreakable international deals all the time. How many has Trump now walked away from? Have the rest of the world taken any meaningful action against the US?
 
Define a reasonable timeframe..... 10 years, 50 years...look at how the negotiations have gone so far and the bad feeling that has built up......and distrust....

The governments tried to hide the legal advice on the May deal cos it was so damning.

It said
“ that “despite statements” that the customs backstop is not intended to be permanent, it would “endure indefinitely until a superseding agreement took its place”.“further re the backstop, if it were to come into force, it would continue do so “unless and until” superseded by the grand free-trade deal that the government has to negotiate with the EU by the end of 2022. The backstop protocol does not provide a mechanism to enable the UK to exit unilaterally.Trade talks could break down, and the backstop would endure”

Basically,The UK could become trapped in an indefinite Brexit "stalemate" where it must obey Europe's customs laws and regulations that it no longer has any control over.

There was no legal advice that suggested we could just walk away as you suggest......we would have to challenge it in court.

Why would we allow Europe to have the upper hand like this and how on earth did May think we would swallow that?

It beggars belief that armed with that knowledge she Negotiated a deal containing that situation.

I don’t even think remainers would be/are too happy with her deal- as it stands.

Uk sovereignty gone “indefinitely”.
 
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I understand the legal position and firstly a deal should be negotiated that suits all as best as possible. We all know this is the best outcome but is looking unlikely at the moment.

However as others have mentioned, legal contracts are.broken all the time. The question is what would the EU do about it? Both the UK and the EU now find each other stuck in between a rock and a hard place. We can't leave and can't negotiate a good deal to stay attached. The EU haven't been able to offer us a deal to allow us to stay attached in some trade form. However how can it allow us to leave without some muscle flex to demonstrate its use and power to other member states.

What will the EU and their member states do if we decide to go all gung ho and leave legal or not? Take us to court? What court....how? Military action?

I just don't see a scenario where they can do that much about it. Sure countries can boycott trade but they need stuff from us almost as we need stuff from them. We are net exporters I understand but not sure of exact percentages but thought it wasn't far off 50/50. We would just have to learn to fend for ourselves more and be more self sufficient wouldn't we. We have all the stuff we need but understand we.will need daily supplies but will need to work trade deals.

Is the EU going to stop their members states being able to supply stuff to the UK and place a ban order on them? Sure you can try to place additional duties which may make things more expensive short term but it will come a point where it will just be cheaper to find alternatives from non-eu countries or do it ourselves.

I just don't see a scenario where it all goes to sh1t, falls apart and the UK falls into wanton decline. So much media bull at the moment and people afraid of the unknown. It is an unknown so how do they know what is going to happen? You can't accurately predict the unknown until it happens. You can guess but you never know what is going to happen for sure until it happens.
 
This would all have been so much easier pre 90's with people just doing what their relevant newspaper told them ;)
 
Seaborne freight have just had their contract terminated. What’s that you said Chris Grayling you awarded a freight company with no boats a £14million contract!!
 
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