Anyone had the jab yet?

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doodlebug

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All the best to you Wattie. I'm lead to believe your missus is a Kiwi. I think the border is opening soon. Hopefully she will be able to see her family next month. Think about us poor expats stuck in Blighty
 
Wattie

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doodlebug said:
All the best to you Wattie. I'm lead to believe your missus is a Kiwi. I think the border is opening soon. Hopefully she will be able to see her family next month. Think about us poor expats stuck in Blighty
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Thanks you too. She is and we are hopeful that a “bubble border” will open up ......although there was 1 case in NZ last week and the media was suggesting it would be shut!!
 
doodlebug

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Wattie said:
My imaginations not that good!
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Really? Hope it's OK over there.
I was hoping to see my Kiwi family in 2020 as well as going on the **** with the SM crowd. Doesn't look like either is gong to happen any time soon. I don't expect to get back to NZ before I pop my clogs now.
 
Wattie

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doodlebug said:
Really? Hope it's OK over there.
I was hoping to see my Kiwi family in 2020 as well as going on the **** with the SM crowd. Doesn't look like either is gong to happen any time soon. I don't expect to get back to NZ before I pop my clogs now.
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Terrible innit.
FaceTime helps bridge the divide in the meantime.
 
MarkMas

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Blox said:
That only makes sense if you take the view that the whole population needs to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and thereby prevent excess deaths from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate.

I agree (and mentioned previously) that vaccines have been effective and should be taken up by those in vulnerable age groups and/or who have underlying health issues. But the rest of us should be left to acquire naturally immunity as the virus becomes endemic. Basically, once those that are at risk are protected, let the rest of us get on with our lives and make our own choices, as we do in other areas of health, wellbeing and social interaction. Sweden is a good example of this approach.

I assume you would support flu vaccines for all too based on your point of view ? Vaccinating everyone for everything regardless, on an annual basis with top up jabs in between ? Those top up jabs by the way already having been excused the rigour of a testing regime.

According to latest media reports, the UK should achieve herd immunity next week in any case. So we should be in good shape if the vaccines are as effective as they are reported to be, and we shouldn’t see any 3rd wave in terms of excess deaths.

As an aside, it interests me greatly that there has been so little coverage throughout the pandemic about how we can all protect ourselves in other ways, through diet, exercise, supplements, etc. Basically, optimising our own highly effective immune systems. If the Government approach was really all about saving lives, surely there should be a more holistic approach to public health.
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As you yourself say, it is NOT the case that "the whole population needs to be vaccinated" (my emphasis), but you do need a substantial proportion vaccinated (or previously infected) to achieve a good level of herd immunity. Herd immunity (as I'm sure you know), is not a sort of 'winning post' that you pass, but a variable level of protection. So while to 'achieve herd immunity next week' sounds good, there are weaker or stronger levels of herd immunity.

Also, the vaccination programme has been skewed toward older people (perhaps fuelling the misconception that it is pre-eminently (or could only be) about individual protection and about being 'taken up by those in vulnerable age groups and/or who have underlying health issues'). Consequently we probably have reached a good level of herd immunity amongst herds of crown green bowls players or knitting circles, but definitely not amongst 5-a-side football players or nightclub-goers. Which matters less for the individual risks, but matters a lot for population transmission.

I would not support flu vaccines for everybody, as flu is MUCH less dangerous than Covid, and also flu mutates rapidly reducing the longer-term effectiveness of a population-wide vaccine, and making annual production and delivery too hard. Whereas Covid is a dangerous disease and there are good (scientific) reasons to assume that the current vaccines should give multi-year protection (although obviously this is not yet 'proven').

This is an interesting page: https://ourworldindata.org/vaccination
 
rockits

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Not been around much due to work and other commitments. Interesting to catch up on many threads.

I have a question if anyone knows.

If you contract Covid19 and your body naturally creates antibodies to fight it, is your body in the same place as it would be if it had been given a vaccine?

In essence can a human generate the same protection against Covid19 naturally as the vaccine does or is there a difference?
 
Wattie

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From what I’ve read it’s generally felt that vaccines give a stronger immunity than the natural one your body produces.
 
Blox

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There’s is also evidence showing that many people who lived through the SARS outbreak in 2003 still have a level of immune response to SARS-Cov-2 (Covid 19) some 17 years later.
 
rockits

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I understood a vaccine to in effect give your bodies natural immune system a kick start or jump start to natural produce your bodies natural immune response to create antibodies to fight and defeat a virus.

I guess this would be on a case by case basis as every human us unique. So some will be good/high responders and some less responsive and maybe even some no responders.

A good healthy immune system with someone in good health with good diet and no genetic weaknesses meaning susceptibility to a particular virus is likely to have little or no symptoms or effects from contracting the virus thus fighting it off easily. A mere flick of the back of the hand as it were.

Clearly many people in modern life won't be like this.

I guess a broad stroke is all we are.dojng at the moment as science is way behind where we would like it to be to allow a really specific and targeted response to any given situation.

So some are getting a vaccine they don't need at all. Some are getting it in front of others that need it regardless of age. It just seems that in 2021 I still feel we are still maybe another 2021years away from true intelligence.

When we waste resources available today to do so many pointless things it feels somewhat wasteful we don't direct those finances/energies/resources into things that can truly make life changing differences.
 
rockits

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Wattie said:
From what I’ve read it’s generally felt that vaccines give a stronger immunity than the natural one your body produces.
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I understand the sentiment and that may be true for some but until I see hard meaningful and large amounts of data to prove this is the case it is merely an opinion of some potentially based on small amounts of sample data.

I guess we wil never know unless we could prove it by running identical samples alongside with identical patients. Which is clearly impossible in reality but what computer genetic modelling could unlock with massive advances in science/maths/technology.
 
Gazcw

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Had my 1st vaccine yesterday and feel as rough as a badgers a$$.

Similar to a Le Mans morning after the night before.
 
conaero

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Did you book online Gaz?

This is the 20th time and still get this despite being 50 and 1/52th

84089
 
philw696

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Me and Ms French both 58 years of age had the Astra Zenica vaccine this afternoon and booked in for the second in July.
 
MarkMas

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safrane said:
Take some Paracetamol tonight before bed or you will ache tomorrow
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Or not....

People have very varied reactions. Mrs MarkMas and I both felt very faint bruising on the injected arm and nothing else at all. My 91-year-old father the same. But a friend of mine basically felt as if he had bad flu, and had to go to bed for 3 days.

I suppose a precautionary painkiller can do no harm (other than maybe disguise any symptoms).
 
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