Another Brexit pain the 4rse fiasco

RobinL

Member
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443
I was in the running for a position contracting to a firm in Holland. Now no longer being considered as obtaining the newly required EU work permit would potentially take 8 weeks plus.... disappointing to say the least.

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Oneball

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5,791
If vat and duty was paid in an EU country whilst the UK was part of the EU then surely there should be nothing to pay.
 

spkennyuk

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5,004
No surprise that the article is somewhat misleading. ATA Carnets are not a new thing they have been around since the 60's. Most often they are used for exhibtion goods and the like which will be returned to their original point / country of export within a 12 month period.

Lets say your sending a test engine / display engine out to USA then Canada then Italy then Spain and finally back to the UK. The carnet has an import and export section for each country it will visit. Customs inspect the goods listed on the carnet at each import and export point and if it is found that something is missing on any of the export legs the local import duty and taxes would need to be paid on this missing items. For that reason things like exhibition give aways such as pens , bags , key rings should not be put on a carnet.

The example above applied before Brexit and after Brexit. If the goods were going to or from a non EU member state then you either needed an ATA carnet for the tempory import or if the shipment was just going to and from one other country it may be more suitable to export them as goods for return in an unaltered state where relief is claimed from duty and vat when returning to the UK. The country it was exported too would process it as good being imported for return in an unaltered state duty and taxes being put on suspense pending re export.

Not really a shock then that either process would be needed once we left the EU.

If the goods at any point were either starting from outside the EU or leaving the EU then a Carnet / temp procedure was always needed. Once the goods enter the EU then a single import and export section of the carnet would be used regardless of how many countries in the EU the goods would visit (27 countries).

The only change is UK to EU goods because we are not part of the EU anymore so no surprise at all and the information has been available on line for years or printed format since the 60's. I've possibly still got a printed version from the 80's

I do wish the journalists writing some of these articles would do their homework and understand the subject they are writing about.
 
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Rwc13

Member
Messages
1,577
No surprise that the article is somewhat misleading. ATA Carnets are not a new thing they have been around since the 60's. Most often they are used for exhibtion goods and the like which will be returned to their original point / country of export within a 12 month period.

Lets say your sending a test engine / display engine out to USA then Canada then Italy then Spain and finally back to the UK. The carnet has an import and export section for each country it will visit. Customs inspect the goods listed on the carnet at each import and export point and if it is found that something is missing on any of the export legs the local import duty and taxes would need to be paid on this missing items. For that reason things like exhibition give aways such as pens , bags , key rings should not be put on a carnet.

The example above applied before Brexit and after Brexit. If the goods were going to or from a non EU member state then you either needed an ATA carnet for the tempory import or if the shipment was just going to and from one other country it may be more suitable to export them as goods for return in an unaltered state where relief is claimed from duty and vat when returning to the UK. The country it was exported too would process it as good being imported for return in an unaltered state duty and taxes being put on suspense pending re export.

Not really a shock then that either process would be needed once we left the EU.

If the goods at any point were either starting from or leaving the EU then a Carnet / temp procedure was always needed. Once the goods enter the EU then a single import and export section of the carnet would be used regardless of how many countries in the EU the goods would visit (27 countries).

The only change is UK to EU goods because we are not part of the EU anymore so no surprise at all and the information has been available on line for years or printed format since the 60's. I've possibly still got a printed version from the 80's

I do wish the journalists writing some of these articles would do their homework and understand the subject they are writing about.
Amen to that
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
38,563
I do wish the journalists writing some of these articles would do their homework and understand the subject they are writing about.
Now why on earth would they want to do that? I mean, Hugh Pym is perfectly qualified to be the Health editor for the BBC with his degree in Politics, Philosophy and economics.

OK to be serious for a moment, it's not actually a requirement to be an expert on the subject on which you wish to report, but if you're not (an expert) you need to be bloody careful.

Which seems to be rare. Mind you many journalists these days appear to have on the most basic command of English and the actual meanings of words and phrases. Some great examples I've noted of late:
Exponential growth. Nope. it wasn't. Clearly the graphs show that it wasn't.
The eye of the storm. You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means (to paraphrase a very fine movie indeed). What I think you mean is that we're at the peak of the crisis. There's none of the calm which is inherent in the 'eye of the storm' and indeed none of the false sense that it's over.

Anyway, which way to the rant thread?

C
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,336
What about musicians and their gear? Don't they have to fill in carnets for EU now whereas they didn't before Brexit?
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
1,400
Now why on earth would they want to do that? I mean, Hugh Pym is perfectly qualified to be the Health editor for the BBC with his degree in Politics, Philosophy and economics.

OK to be serious for a moment, it's not actually a requirement to be an expert on the subject on which you wish to report, but if you're not (an expert) you need to be bloody careful.

Which seems to be rare. Mind you many journalists these days appear to have on the most basic command of English and the actual meanings of words and phrases. Some great examples I've noted of late:
Exponential growth. Nope. it wasn't. Clearly the graphs show that it wasn't.
The eye of the storm. You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means (to paraphrase a very fine movie indeed). What I think you mean is that we're at the peak of the crisis. There's none of the calm which is inherent in the 'eye of the storm' and indeed none of the false sense that it's over.

Anyway, which way to the rant thread?

C
In fairness, I knew bugger all about Staffordshire or veterinary science for my first two editorial jobs; that made me check more often.
This is a big problem in medical journals - the salary for an editorial role is a mere percentage of that you’d get for being a vet/doctor/nurse/consultant. However, in an ideal world you’d have medically qualified journalistic staff, but if they have the qualifications for a, say, £120,000 job, why would they do a £20,000 job? (Graduate journalist jobs are about £12,500 - if you’re lucky).
Medical journals are peer reviewed which deals with the hard science (well, most of the time) but having a medical degree does not mean you automatically have an innate grasp of the English language. Sub-editing and proofreading is an artform, enhancing without diminishing. Sadly it’s not one that’s valued much these days...
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
38,563
Nothing to disagree with there, chap. And TBF I wouldn't trust a doctor as a reporter just because he's a doctor. The halo effect is writ large. But I think it would be nice to have someone with a pretty good degree of scientific education to report on scientific matters at that high a level.

C
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
1,400
Nothing to disagree with there, chap. And TBF I wouldn't trust a doctor as a reporter just because he's a doctor. The halo effect is writ large. But I think it would be nice to have someone with a pretty good degree of scientific education to report on scientific matters at that high a level.

C
I imagine the BBC has editorial panels they can phone for guidance.

Though going back to your language points - my least favourites are:
Ice isn’t treacherous - it’s not plotting your downfall
Decimated - this is a specific value. Not just ‘bad’
Iconic - used as punctuation these days
Pallet cleanser - that’s a jet wash, not a grape between cheeses
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,336
I've got my iMac in Luxembourg - personal one, I took it before Brexit, if I come back to UK (probs won't) how will I prove it's mine and not bought in LU? I've had it since 2012......
 

Felonious Crud

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,207
I've got my iMac in Luxembourg - personal one, I took it before Brexit, if I come back to UK (probs won't) how will I prove it's mine and not bought in LU? I've had it since 2012......
I'd guess a 9-year laptop won't raise too many eyebrows. If it was a boxed 2021 model, maybe a different story.

I've bought plenty of stuff in Asia and the US before and never had any bother getting it back to the UK. Just carried it.
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,004
In fairness, I knew bugger all about Staffordshire or veterinary science for my first two editorial jobs; that made me check more often.
This is a big problem in medical journals - the salary for an editorial role is a mere percentage of that you’d get for being a vet/doctor/nurse/consultant. However, in an ideal world you’d have medically qualified journalistic staff, but if they have the qualifications for a, say, £120,000 job, why would they do a £20,000 job? (Graduate journalist jobs are about £12,500 - if you’re lucky).
Medical journals are peer reviewed which deals with the hard science (well, most of the time) but having a medical degree does not mean you automatically have an innate grasp of the English language. Sub-editing and proofreading is an artform, enhancing without diminishing. Sadly it’s not one that’s valued much these days...
Fair point. Im not expecting them to be an expert on the subject. A little bit of research if they dont know goes a long way to being able to write a balanced factual article.

Take the first paragraph

"Experts have highlighted increased red tape, additional costs and lack of supporting literature to ease confusion around new rules that have come into force as part of the UK's divorce from the EU. "

Now if the author had then done a quick google on the phrase ATA Carnet then they would have brought up the freely downloadable literature that is available explaining the process.

This particular article takes a survey done by somebody else and without doing anything as basic as a google search proceed to write an expose style article which skews the facts at best or just plain ignores them.

Journalists make mistakes which is fine it happens and if they have done their research fair enough its an honest mistake.

Take the recent which is the best Maserati article published last month.
Mistake made was they chose the wrong Maserati as the best one ;);):D but at least they did their research wrote a balanced article and just made a mistake with the conclusion ! :lol2:
 

spkennyuk

Member
Messages
5,004
I've got my iMac in Luxembourg - personal one, I took it before Brexit, if I come back to UK (probs won't) how will I prove it's mine and not bought in LU? I've had it since 2012......
Your allowed to travel with personal items. Plus the date of mfg on the base would be a big indicator you have not just bought it.

Same as taking your golf clubs abroad, ski equipment ect. A musician can carry their instrument as checked in baggage. A full gig setup would be a different matter.
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,336
I'd guess a 9-year laptop won't raise too many eyebrows. If it was a boxed 2021 model, maybe a different story.

I've bought plenty of stuff in Asia and the US before and never had any bother getting it back to the UK. Just carried it.
Well it's immaculate and boxed, Apple boxes are art in themselves! iMac is a desktop mind.