Alfa 33 Restoration

[TridentTested]

Check out how small we ran our wheels back then, how things have moved on...what are they, 14's????

I remember when 185/60 was regarded as boy-racer super low profile.

 

[TridentTested]

Pictures of my 33P4 taken mid 90's.

No clutch rest? At least I can't see one from the angle of the photo.

The Suds and Sprints had one.

 

[hodroyd]

Dicky,
Sorry to hear that news mate, let's hope a bit of treatment helps clear it up, keep well..!!
Cheers
R

 

[2b1ask1]

Sorry to read about the illness Dicky, something we have had to handle on my wife's side with her brother ending up with one of hers last year. Ironically he is doing better than her now!

Rebuild is looking great, hang in there...

 

[mjheathcote]

Hi Dicky,

I bought her when she was a couple of years old.
The a/c was not working when I bought her and the belt had been taken off.
As you know there are two condensers with a link pipe running low across the front, at some point the pipe got broken most likely on a speed bump or steep drive.
Anyway got the link pipe made up, new electric fans that had seized up, new belt and gassed her up. Worked very well, just an on/off button and a fridge stat to disengage the compressor clutch when the evaporator got too cold!
It ran on r22, a bit naughty for the age of vehicle.
Terrible news about your health, hope they find a cure :-(
Cheers
Mike

 

[hodroyd]

Dicky,
Crikey mate, if it doesn't rain it pours, this luck thing normally comes in 3's, then it goes the other way, so hang on in there..!!
Cheers
R

 

[mjheathcote]

Ah ok, thanks, was just curious to see how much the a/c was as an option, I know it was quite pricey. I'm guessing your P4 had a switch like this under the bonnet?:

View attachment 13217

I had a 16v Sportwagon which I bought for the a/c, at the time it was one of only 5 known UK cars with a/c. I was going to transfer it onto my other 33 but I was disappointed to see it was a strange system (didn't realise at the time there were 2 types). I then spent stupid money (well into 4 figures!) sourcing the factory system from Europe and had to make new wiring looms and had to buy new condensers (£350 each!) and a new compressor. The 33 system was only designed for R12 so I have also had to convert it all to run on R134a. Kept the SW for quite a while in the end, it was quite scruffy but great fun, I Superchipped it and used to enjoy surprising the boy racers! Here's a pic of my Alfa fleet all together:

View attachment 13216

Thanks for your sympathy, its unlikely that a cure will be found as there is no money for research and the condition is so rare that there wouldn't be many people to sell it to. Its very bad luck but I just have to get on with things the best I can and anyway I'm not here fishing for sympathy, just sharing a passion for Italian cars with some like minded people...

Yes, or rather, without the cheap plastic cover hiding the fridge stat underneath!
I traced all the wiring for the a/c and from memory it consisted of the on/off switch, stat, two cooling fans, electric clutch on compressor, high and low pressure sensors.
The stat switched on or off the electric clutch, and the high pressure sensor brought in the fans. The low pressure sensor shut down the whole system, all controlled through a few simple relays. It was something like that, it's nearly 20 years ago!

 

[mjheathcote]

I'm sad, I watched it!
I do like things working, it was a mission when I got mine, "it must work at all cost"
The funny thing was though, the heater was rubbish, and I never got that sorted. So lovely and cool in summer, freezing in winter!

 

[33owner]

Hey, very nice restoration here,
I'm from Australia and own 2 p4's
1 red and 1 white. Both have ac(think all s3's in australia had ac due to our climate)
That black switch under the bonnet- what does that do? I have never been able to figure it out-my AC's need a regas before summer starts ( which is next week)
I am hoping to restore my white p4 as it was hit up the rear by a p plater on her mobile phone, she avoided me and the court and -for a while we couldn't find her and
had private investigators hunt her down. 11months later from when the accident occurredin 2 weeks i go to court to hopefully get full $$ in damages and costs.
Been looking up all the information about how many were built and imported. I see that only a dozen are left on the road in the UK! from 250-12 in 20 years. Here in Australia
Alfa Romeo Australia only imported 28-30 vehicles- we dont have the access to car registers like www.howmanyleft so it is hard to known for certain how many are left, however
by talking to many alfa mechanic specialists and ooking at the forums there would be no more than 6-8 known of in All of oz.
I love the P4 and look forward to seeing my white p4 stripped down and fixed properly- i can only hope that I don't have any bad luck with body shops like you did- legal issues take forever
and I understand your frustration.

 

[mjheathcote]

Wow two P4's!
With so little numbers imported, parts must be an issue for you?
The black rotary switch is on top of the thermostat that controls the temperature of the air exiting the evaporator, into the cabin, and hence switches the compressor on or off.
Cheers

 

[33owner]

Yes, I was very lucky to obtain both of them. Parts are actually not bad, we have many alfa shops here that have heaps of the alfa 33 16v parts, the p4 bits are hard to get, but both my p4's awd gear is 100% if anything, I have just improved the floor pan area where the viscous coupling is mounted-as the sheet metal used from factory was very thin and could warp- the results of this warping could lead to bent tailshafts and chewed out viscous couplings and mounts-which are impossible to find.

 

[mjheathcote]

Yes the propshaft coupling was the last job I did to my P4 before I sold it.
At the time I could only get the main dealer to do it and it was quite expensive, fitted a new clutch at the same time.
I had the usual transmission bounce when turning a tight corner. The thing is when I had mine it was before the Internet as we know it today so I didn't know it was a case of TADS.
The only other real problem was the rear diff that developed a whine. Bought one from a scrapper that was no different, so before I returned it I had mine reconditioned. The reconditioned one also whined as well :-(

 

[Scarlan]

Hi 33 Owner,
I used to have a P4 in Melbourne (number plate was ALFA33).
I have seen the car a couple of times in recent years in the South Melbourne area and it still looks to be in excellent condition, but the owner has changed the wheels which I think is a pity.
I recall when I bought mine that 40 were delivered to Australia.
Shouldn't have sold it; that was a great car.
Will try to find a picture but that was per digital camera days so it will have to be a scan.

 

[CatmanV2]

Reminds me I should get Mrs C's Sprint out some time soon

Those flat engine were *storming*

C

 

[Coxy13]

G'day mate!

Good work with the 33!!! I have one I'm doing up here in Australia. Not quite as serious as yours mind....

I've done the CSC Exhaust and a Squadra chip, wondering if I should get the C&B cams....are they worth getting?

I managed to get a full Zender body kit which will be attached as soon as I get the thing painted, but that brings me to my question,
Where did you get the original sticker set for inside the bonnet from? I wanted to order some for the inside of my bonnet for once
the car is painted

Cheers

Tim

 

[mjheathcote]

Keep going!
When I bare shelled and restored my Triumph Stag from '90 to '95 it was tough at times.
Back then I had no digital camera, no Internet, or support forums for advise/support.
Looking back with the resource available today, don't know how I did it!
I would push on in the winter on dark evenings, freezing cold, and get totally disillusioned when something did not go right and leave it for several weeks. The change to BST and light evenings was a big boost to get going again.
The satisfaction and achievement when you finish is worth all the hard work now, not many people can say they have completely bare shelled a car and rebuilt it back again, glad I have!
Two extremes, from a rusty bare shell to show winner!
Cheers,
Mike

 

[Parisien]

Indeed....good luck and don't give up!!!!

P

 

[Coxy13]

Hi Tim

Thanks for your kind comments, very nice to hear from a fellow 33 owner. Which version do you have?
I know of a couple of other guys in Oz with some interesting 33s, you may want to have a look at these threads:

A nice restoration with everything refurbished and a few nice modifications:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engined-alfa-romeos/43667-alfa-33-16v-rebuild.html

This is a particularly nice car, too much colour coding for my taste but beautifully presented and some nice mods:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engined-alfa-romeos/86143-new-bits-pics.html
I'm pretty sure this guy has some experience with C&B cams.

Unfortunately I don't know what mine will be like as my engine hasn't been run yet and won't be fitted to the the car for some time. From what I have heard the fast road spec cams are pretty good for road use but they do push the power curve up the rev range a little. The race cams are fairly extreme and you may find that they are too much for road use, the engines don't tend to idle too well with them and the power is all top end, fine for racing but not so good for road use. The other thing to bear in mind is that often the cams are fitted as part of a wide range of modifications such as the fitment of vernier cam pulleys, gas flowing, induction/exhaust modifications, standalone ECUs etc, so the affect on performance of the C&B cams alone would be difficult to measure. I'm not sure if you have investigated the costs of the cams, unfortunately the 16v 33 unit is very expensive to tune as you need 4 camshafts


This thread may also be of interest and it may give you an idea of what the fast road cams are like:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-33-sud-and-sprint/152680-a-new-star-is-born-alfa-33-a.html
I'm pretty sure the owner of this car and the one above would be happy to discuss these things in more detail with you if you need to, they have been quite inspirational for my project. There is also a guy called Martin Silfredi in Oz who does quite a lot with 33s, he may be able to help.

The sticker set came from a company in the USA:
http://carclassic.biz/
Select "Decal sets" then Alfa Romeo and scroll down to the 33, although it says it covers models up to 1987, the set I got was perfect for my 1994 and you can even ask them for the correct colour code sticker. The quality is excellent and almost indistinguishable from the originals and the price isn't too bad at $60USD.

Hope that helps

Thanks for the help! That will help me to no end!

With regards to my little 33....Its going to be relevantly standard, I have a series 1 green cloverleaf with sunroof, I have had a series 3 1.7 16v engine put in.
CSC Exhaust - Full System
Squadra Chip
Koni Adjustable shockies all around.
I have also replaced most of the rubber joints with Poly to firm it up, and it has done that well! I will leave the suspension rubbers as rubber, just all other
joints such as pan hard rod and tie rod ends as poly. I have also got a set of adjustable tie rod ends from a friend in Holland.

I've done basics as it will be a road car, and over here they aren't so nice to people who have their car's done up to the eyeballs....plus its a little fun the way
it is.

I originally bought the car as a track toy, but in the end I found a full Zender body kit for it, and I think I will make her a pretty little thing and leave it on the
road so I can use it.

Tim

Keep up the good work, I like reading this thread!

 

[Coxy13]

Interesting to hear about your 33 Tim, I always liked the S1 Cloverleaf, a very rare beast in the UK now as most have rotted away, great fun to drive with no power steering and the nice little 1.5 twin carb engine. Sounds like you've done some nice modifications but be careful with making the car too stiff as it can lead to the bodyshell cracking, particularly around the front chassis legs. I can't remember if the S1 has the strengthening bars in the engine bay? If not you should be able to find some from a S3 and fit them, they will help to strengthen things. A strut brace is also a good idea for strengthening the bodyshell and really helps with turn-in.

We have just had all the Chassis cracks re-welded up and the mechanic welded in a (For lack of a better word) square section over the section that cracks. All strengthening braces have been done, as we got them off the 16v I believe.

I had a talk to my suspension man about the strut brace, He seemed to be of the opinion that in the front it wouldn't make much difference because of the fire wall that is there....I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but he also said the area that would be best improved by one would be the rear end......Any thoughts on that?

I am being very careful to make sure it isn't too stiff, there is only 6 poly bushes in the whole car.....one either end of the Pan Hard Rod, one in each of the Tie Rod's and two on the front sway bar. All suspension is still rubber. It feels firmer without being like a brick.

I plan on getting some 15" rims for track days as said in that other forum on 33's.....but that's about all I really plan on doing.....Amelia will be too pretty with her body kit etc to hurt her

As for the formula Boxer......That would be alot of fun! I wish we could have things like that here.....alas I only have one race track within 60km's of me =( (Queensland Raceway doesn't count)

 

[Coxy13]

OK sounds like you've got it all covered.

The fitting of strut braces on 33s is a common subject for debate, many argue that there is no need as the car has an additional bulkhead/firewall and this point is usually raised by someone who doesn't actually have one fitted. For anyone who has this view, get them to jack up their car on one side at the front then try opening and closing the door closest to that point! All claims of shell stiffness will soon evaporate as they struggle to open the door and get it to close properly again. In addition, a strut brace is not fitted purely for strengthening the bodyshell, the other purpose is to assist in maintaining suspension geometry during hard cornering which can otherwise be compromised as suspension turrets flex and suspension components move. Just look at how many high performance cars and race cars that have full roll cages but also have strut braces.

I can personally confirm that the strut brace makes quite a difference to the 33, turn in is sharper and the shell suffers a lot less from flex, give one a try they're not expensive, should be available readily is Oz but otherwise try here: www.strutbracer.co.uk..

The shell needs all the help it can get as far as strengthening goes so a rear strut brace would be a good idea but unfortunately no one makes one so it would have to be a custom made one, shouldn't be too difficult though.

If you're feeling flush have a look here at all the 33 tuning goodies http://www.ahmotorsports.co.uk/index2.htm

Hopefully I'll have some more detailed updates in the next couple of weeks

Thanks for the advice, it always helps to talk to someone who has actually done it.....I do appreciate it!

Cheers

Tim