zagatoes30
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2023 F1 - Fantasy League
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Guy
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Interesting article by Gary Anderson today;
GARY ANDERSON
FORMER JORDAN AND JAGUAR F1 TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
24 July 2023 • 2:40pm
Mercedes are stuck in a chasing pack that are still don't really understand why they cannot compete with Red Bull CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES/Peter Fox
Red Bull have won every race this year and look unstoppable. But the battle of the chasing pack behind them - Mercedes, McLaren, Aston Martin and Ferrari - is far more intriguing.
Who is best-placed to take the fight to Red Bull between now and Abu Dhabi and why? McLaren are most likely to keep Red Bull honest. Lando Norris has been the next-best behind Max Verstappen for two rounds in a row, and McLaren have taken the biggest step forward. At the start of the year they were among the backmarkers, scoring just 17 points in the first eight rounds. They then scored 70 in the next three.
Why is this? It all comes down to a team’s understanding of their own aerodynamic philosophy. McLaren have not necessarily copied Red Bull, but their recent upgrades have propelled them in podium contention on three very different tracks after barely competing for points earlier on.
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In essence they – unlike some of their rivals – have not been too proud to admit they were wrong and get on with it. There are a lot of proud engineers in F1 – I was one of them – who find it difficult to admit that what they have produced is wrong and to look to other teams for inspiration. Mercedes have been the perfect example of this way of thinking.
Until Mercedes buy into the fact that they are not quick enough and do something about it they will stay where they are. Ultimately, they should not be in competition with McLaren now nor Aston Martin earlier in the season. Both of those teams are Mercedes power-unit customers and have far fewer resources and depth.
How many times have we heard Toto Wolff say “we’ve tried what Red Bull do in the wind tunnel and it doesn’t work”? Well, it does, the facts are there. Red Bull have double the points of any other team.
McLaren’s rapid progress is in stark contrast to Aston Martin, who began the season as the second fastest team and with a tranche of podiums. They scored just three points in Hungary with Lance Stroll, in 10th, lapped by Verstappen.
Why have they fallen so far behind their rivals? Again, it comes down to the understanding of their philosophy. While McLaren have edged towards a Red Bull-like design, Aston Martin arrived this season with a Red Bull clone and now their development has stalled, resulting in worsening returns. That is no great surprise given that Dan Fallows and other top technical staff members moved to Aston Martin from Red Bull.
The next step is advancing their understanding of that. Yes, you have that imported concept, but you are on your own in trying to advance it. A team needs to understand what they are trying to achieve when each new part is tested in the wind tunnel. Their understanding of what direction they are trying to take is not as deep as at Red Bull and now probably McLaren as well.
As for Ferrari, anything could happen. At the next race in Spa they could have two cars on the front row or they could both be out in Q1. It just seems to be a random set of circumstances that dictates whether they get the best out of their car or not. They do not seem to have much idea about how to optimise their races; it’s all a bit of pot luck on the day.
There is an additional factor to consider when thinking about the ending of a Red Bull clean sweep. Might their aerodynamic development penalty – which means they get less time than their rivals in the wind tunnel – mean they could be beaten fair and square before the season is over?
Sorry, but I just do not see it. Firstly, their advantage is already so large that they are probably leaving a little bit in the tank on race day, whether that’s 0.2sec a lap or even 0.5sec.
The biggest reason why, though, is that they understand what they are trying to do with their car far better than anyone else.
Unlike the other teams who have changed paths to be more like the RB19, they have simply been crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.
This also means that they can get more out of their wind tunnel time – however limited – than any other team. For example, they might, roughly speaking, be able to get more from two or three wind tunnel runs than another team might be able to get in five or six. In that sense, it is not much of a penalty.
Mercedes are too proud to admit their car is wrong and it's costing them
No team understands their car better than Red Bull, so don't expect wind tunnel penalties to level the playing fieldGARY ANDERSON
FORMER JORDAN AND JAGUAR F1 TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
24 July 2023 • 2:40pm
Mercedes are stuck in a chasing pack that are still don't really understand why they cannot compete with Red Bull CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES/Peter Fox
Red Bull have won every race this year and look unstoppable. But the battle of the chasing pack behind them - Mercedes, McLaren, Aston Martin and Ferrari - is far more intriguing.
Who is best-placed to take the fight to Red Bull between now and Abu Dhabi and why? McLaren are most likely to keep Red Bull honest. Lando Norris has been the next-best behind Max Verstappen for two rounds in a row, and McLaren have taken the biggest step forward. At the start of the year they were among the backmarkers, scoring just 17 points in the first eight rounds. They then scored 70 in the next three.
Why is this? It all comes down to a team’s understanding of their own aerodynamic philosophy. McLaren have not necessarily copied Red Bull, but their recent upgrades have propelled them in podium contention on three very different tracks after barely competing for points earlier on.
Advertisement
In essence they – unlike some of their rivals – have not been too proud to admit they were wrong and get on with it. There are a lot of proud engineers in F1 – I was one of them – who find it difficult to admit that what they have produced is wrong and to look to other teams for inspiration. Mercedes have been the perfect example of this way of thinking.
Until Mercedes buy into the fact that they are not quick enough and do something about it they will stay where they are. Ultimately, they should not be in competition with McLaren now nor Aston Martin earlier in the season. Both of those teams are Mercedes power-unit customers and have far fewer resources and depth.
How many times have we heard Toto Wolff say “we’ve tried what Red Bull do in the wind tunnel and it doesn’t work”? Well, it does, the facts are there. Red Bull have double the points of any other team.
McLaren’s rapid progress is in stark contrast to Aston Martin, who began the season as the second fastest team and with a tranche of podiums. They scored just three points in Hungary with Lance Stroll, in 10th, lapped by Verstappen.
Why have they fallen so far behind their rivals? Again, it comes down to the understanding of their philosophy. While McLaren have edged towards a Red Bull-like design, Aston Martin arrived this season with a Red Bull clone and now their development has stalled, resulting in worsening returns. That is no great surprise given that Dan Fallows and other top technical staff members moved to Aston Martin from Red Bull.
The next step is advancing their understanding of that. Yes, you have that imported concept, but you are on your own in trying to advance it. A team needs to understand what they are trying to achieve when each new part is tested in the wind tunnel. Their understanding of what direction they are trying to take is not as deep as at Red Bull and now probably McLaren as well.
As for Ferrari, anything could happen. At the next race in Spa they could have two cars on the front row or they could both be out in Q1. It just seems to be a random set of circumstances that dictates whether they get the best out of their car or not. They do not seem to have much idea about how to optimise their races; it’s all a bit of pot luck on the day.
There is an additional factor to consider when thinking about the ending of a Red Bull clean sweep. Might their aerodynamic development penalty – which means they get less time than their rivals in the wind tunnel – mean they could be beaten fair and square before the season is over?
Sorry, but I just do not see it. Firstly, their advantage is already so large that they are probably leaving a little bit in the tank on race day, whether that’s 0.2sec a lap or even 0.5sec.
The biggest reason why, though, is that they understand what they are trying to do with their car far better than anyone else.
Unlike the other teams who have changed paths to be more like the RB19, they have simply been crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.
This also means that they can get more out of their wind tunnel time – however limited – than any other team. For example, they might, roughly speaking, be able to get more from two or three wind tunnel runs than another team might be able to get in five or six. In that sense, it is not much of a penalty.
midlifecrisis
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He should know, he was one of those 'stuffy Jag engineers' Adrian Newey referred to in his book.Interesting article by Gary Anderson today;
Mercedes are too proud to admit their car is wrong and it's costing them
No team understands their car better than Red Bull, so don't expect wind tunnel penalties to level the playing field
GARY ANDERSON
FORMER JORDAN AND JAGUAR F1 TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
24 July 2023 • 2:40pm
Mercedes are stuck in a chasing pack that are still don't really understand why they cannot compete with Red Bull CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES/Peter Fox
Red Bull have won every race this year and look unstoppable. But the battle of the chasing pack behind them - Mercedes, McLaren, Aston Martin and Ferrari - is far more intriguing.
Who is best-placed to take the fight to Red Bull between now and Abu Dhabi and why? McLaren are most likely to keep Red Bull honest. Lando Norris has been the next-best behind Max Verstappen for two rounds in a row, and McLaren have taken the biggest step forward. At the start of the year they were among the backmarkers, scoring just 17 points in the first eight rounds. They then scored 70 in the next three.
Why is this? It all comes down to a team’s understanding of their own aerodynamic philosophy. McLaren have not necessarily copied Red Bull, but their recent upgrades have propelled them in podium contention on three very different tracks after barely competing for points earlier on.
Advertisement
In essence they – unlike some of their rivals – have not been too proud to admit they were wrong and get on with it. There are a lot of proud engineers in F1 – I was one of them – who find it difficult to admit that what they have produced is wrong and to look to other teams for inspiration. Mercedes have been the perfect example of this way of thinking.
Until Mercedes buy into the fact that they are not quick enough and do something about it they will stay where they are. Ultimately, they should not be in competition with McLaren now nor Aston Martin earlier in the season. Both of those teams are Mercedes power-unit customers and have far fewer resources and depth.
How many times have we heard Toto Wolff say “we’ve tried what Red Bull do in the wind tunnel and it doesn’t work”? Well, it does, the facts are there. Red Bull have double the points of any other team.
McLaren’s rapid progress is in stark contrast to Aston Martin, who began the season as the second fastest team and with a tranche of podiums. They scored just three points in Hungary with Lance Stroll, in 10th, lapped by Verstappen.
Why have they fallen so far behind their rivals? Again, it comes down to the understanding of their philosophy. While McLaren have edged towards a Red Bull-like design, Aston Martin arrived this season with a Red Bull clone and now their development has stalled, resulting in worsening returns. That is no great surprise given that Dan Fallows and other top technical staff members moved to Aston Martin from Red Bull.
The next step is advancing their understanding of that. Yes, you have that imported concept, but you are on your own in trying to advance it. A team needs to understand what they are trying to achieve when each new part is tested in the wind tunnel. Their understanding of what direction they are trying to take is not as deep as at Red Bull and now probably McLaren as well.
As for Ferrari, anything could happen. At the next race in Spa they could have two cars on the front row or they could both be out in Q1. It just seems to be a random set of circumstances that dictates whether they get the best out of their car or not. They do not seem to have much idea about how to optimise their races; it’s all a bit of pot luck on the day.
There is an additional factor to consider when thinking about the ending of a Red Bull clean sweep. Might their aerodynamic development penalty – which means they get less time than their rivals in the wind tunnel – mean they could be beaten fair and square before the season is over?
Sorry, but I just do not see it. Firstly, their advantage is already so large that they are probably leaving a little bit in the tank on race day, whether that’s 0.2sec a lap or even 0.5sec.
The biggest reason why, though, is that they understand what they are trying to do with their car far better than anyone else.
Unlike the other teams who have changed paths to be more like the RB19, they have simply been crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.
This also means that they can get more out of their wind tunnel time – however limited – than any other team. For example, they might, roughly speaking, be able to get more from two or three wind tunnel runs than another team might be able to get in five or six. In that sense, it is not much of a penalty.
The reason McLaren have found speed is through some musical chairs in the aero department. The leader got binned and the new man made some 'obvious' changes the aero team minions wanted. Maybe Lando might get his first win at 'second home' GP (His mum is Belgian as is Max's)
Guy
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Could be a Belgian podium but not sure the McL will have the legs on the RB quite yet.
zagatoes30
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As far as predictions are concerned I think the Fantasy game just got harder, only likely to be 1 winner realistically but pole, fastest lap, 2nd & 3rd could be any of 6 other drivers - choose wisely 
midlifecrisis
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@Tallman Are you still doing this spreadsheet?
Tallman
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I’ve updated it, at least I’m still leading that one
The following teams have had penalty points because they made team changes above the 6 free ones (a bit like grid place points for using too many engines I guess in real F1) but these penalties are not taken into account for the scores below as that would make it too complicated.
Cape Racing 40
ChrisGT 10
AlexK. 10
DanK. 10
midlifecrisis
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Love your work sir, except that I'm third!I’ve updated it, at least I’m still leading that one
The following teams have had penalty points because they made team changes above the 6 free ones (a bit like grid place points for using too many engines I guess in real F1) but these penalties are not taken into account for the scores below as that would make it too complicated.
Cape Racing 40
ChrisGT 10
AlexK. 10
DanK. 10
View attachment 117159
Nice to see Dennis get a race win in Canada (could I be more patronising?)
DLax69
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Hey, I am committed to my crapshow! And I am constitutionally unable to pick RB and especially Max Virtuallynomustachen regardless...
Tallman
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Yes I made ruthless mid season changes - inspired by Dr Helmut - why wait another two races
. Alpine and Aston out, Alonso and LeClerc out. But I’m stuck with Sargent now, he is worth buggerall - that was a bad buy…
midlifecrisis
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Told ya, shudda got 'The Grin' while he was the same price as Logan 'we have to turn right?' SargeantYes I made ruthless mid season changes - inspired by Dr Helmut - why wait another two races
midlifecrisis
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Your commitment is duly noted however excelled by others, please try harder.
I also note that I 'DNF'd' in Canada while DLAX 'won'... I think we got switched by the league...
Burf22
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Well, at least I've got a chance at the Triple Crown!I’ve updated it, at least I’m still leading that one
The following teams have had penalty points because they made team changes above the 6 free ones (a bit like grid place points for using too many engines I guess in real F1) but these penalties are not taken into account for the scores below as that would make it too complicated.
Cape Racing 40
ChrisGT 10
AlexK. 10
DanK. 10
View attachment 117159
zagatoes30
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The smart move was dumping Aston and moving to McLaren, still got Alonso as despite his drop in form he still gets more points than anyone else around his value. Swapping De Vries in as soon as he was sacked I'm hoping will give me a cheap driver that picks up some points, time will tell
DLax69
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Spoiler alert: nope!
Tallman
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Yes I should have stomached another 10 point penalty, would probably not have cost me more than 5 points net…my team value is now $101 Mln but that includes the dud Sargeant
Andyk
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I managed to keep Aston Martin as a team and Mclaren and Red Bull. Swapped Alpine for Mclaren thank goodness.