TridentTested
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This comes up again and again but it's wrong. Ireland rejected Lisbon, Ireland had Lisbon changed to suit its needs, Ireland then accepted the modified Lisbon with a large majority.
Brexit Deal
- Thread starter GeoffCapes
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This comes up again and again but it's wrong. Ireland rejected Lisbon, Ireland had Lisbon changed to suit its needs, Ireland then accepted the modified Lisbon with a large majority.
TridentTested
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The woman who almost single-handedly created the single market, and sold it to Honda and Nissan as a great idea, would not walk away from it.
Wanderer
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I’ll say one thing, despite pasts, histories, etc, the likes of Boris Johnson etc have no idea about the day to day struggles of ordinary people, Jeremy Corbyn does, and fights for it.
I’m Northern working class, but i’ve done ok, and I believe others should have that chance. Not easy if you live in a doorway and eat in a foodbank. The government has manufactured this huge gulf, Brexit pales into insignificance compared to this.
I’m Northern working class, but i’ve done ok, and I believe others should have that chance. Not easy if you live in a doorway and eat in a foodbank. The government has manufactured this huge gulf, Brexit pales into insignificance compared to this.
Wanderer
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Mother of a thousand dead, three of them my mates...
TridentTested
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Believe me, I'm no fan of hers. I was jumping for joy when John Sergeant broke that news from Paris.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...y-Margaret-Thatcher-was-the-making-of-me.html
TridentTested
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Oh, such simple times.
Wanderer
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Cool.
I thank her for one thing tho, I was as carried away as was everyone else with the ‘Task Force’ and it did show a lot of British resolve, the Vulcan raids etc, but seeing the largely cut TV coverage then mates telling me it was like really when they came back, I quickly polarised my opinion, it was bad and she knew it and gambled for votes.
Read a lot about the conflict since and the considered opinion was it was 50/50. We were just lucky...
Navcorr
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This is a good point, however, it was still the EEC at that stage. A very different beast to today's EU. Would Maggie have signed up to Lisbon or try to slide it in through the backdoor having promised a referendum first. I very much doubt it.
GeoffCapes
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A beer says there is.
philw696
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One thing really noticeable here in France which I like is the lack of **** for sale from the likes of China.
There is certainly plenty of quality products available from other EU member states.
Only today have I purchased stuff made in Belgium and Germany.
Just saying but quality was really noticeable.
There is certainly plenty of quality products available from other EU member states.
Only today have I purchased stuff made in Belgium and Germany.
Just saying but quality was really noticeable.
Wattie
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If there is its because the will of the people was ignored via TOTAL political incompetence.
Remainers negotiating something they didn’t want.
Europe now has us exactly where they wanted us....the European ruling is another coordinated turn of the screw to pressure for a vote to “remain”......which is exactly the plan they had.
Another referendum will destroy the belief in British politics and the democratic process. It’s possible the current parties will be finished, particularly the Tories at they were at the helm throughout this whole botched process.
Cheers Wattie
Zep
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I have to say, I find the mature and level headed discussion here a relief from the muddled **** that clogs up my FB feed.
I would prefer to see another vote on the final deal. Maybe even a second preference option where we have three choices. Once it is counted the least popular outcome is removed and the second preference of those voters is added to the first preferences of the top two options. Giving a final majority.
Would it change the result? No idea, there are many entrenched ideals in this matter.
Would it make me happier to tow the line? Yes. On the simple basis that it is a vote based on the reality that has come to exist rather than the whimsy of bus decorators and slogan writers on both sides of the debate.
If the majority of the nation were to say that the now obvious pain of leaving was worth it, then it would put the whole question beyond reasonable debate in my view - one way or another.
I would prefer to see another vote on the final deal. Maybe even a second preference option where we have three choices. Once it is counted the least popular outcome is removed and the second preference of those voters is added to the first preferences of the top two options. Giving a final majority.
Would it change the result? No idea, there are many entrenched ideals in this matter.
Would it make me happier to tow the line? Yes. On the simple basis that it is a vote based on the reality that has come to exist rather than the whimsy of bus decorators and slogan writers on both sides of the debate.
If the majority of the nation were to say that the now obvious pain of leaving was worth it, then it would put the whole question beyond reasonable debate in my view - one way or another.
Wanderer
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It should never have been a 50/50 vote, I think the Scots one was 60/40, could be wrong but anyway, the point still stands, such a humongous change in everything should never have been left on a potential swing of .01%. Such stuff should require a huge shift in public opinion.
Navcorr
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Chocolates & lager beer - obviously
And for me, this is where the core of Labour's vote was found absent without a clue...!
GeoffCapes
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Let's just clarify. It was the will of 17 million. Less than a third of the population.
Yes the vote was there for everyone but those are the facts.
Their should never had been a vote as we vote politicians to do our voting in the first place.
Too many voting one way or the other when they didn't have all the facts.
It's only as the sh*t has hit the fan have the facts become clearer.
JonW
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This^^^^^^^^
I know so many people who voted leave who had no clue what they were voting for.... I also think both sides lied through their back teeth, and misled people, rather than admit they didn’t necessarily know what it would mean...
I am a remainer, but would accept a leave vote if it was based on an honest understanding of what leaving meant, rather than a bunch of rhetoric and lots of old people hankering after the glory days of when Britain ruled the waves!
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allandwf
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This is also my belief, even if you agree or disagree with the whole thing. No one other than farmers votes Torie in my part of the world, and I do believe that this will be grasped on. Whatever way any of us vote I think we can all agree that this is an utter shambles, too many different agendas going on.
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Wattie
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Geoff, you're clutching at straws now
Everyone eligible had the opportunity to vote and of those that did there was a winner.
Total nonsense.
I guess we'd better re-run every previous vote in history then because not everyone voted.....and you never get all the facts over anything- even if you did a lot wouldnt be interested in hearing or reading them.
Voting can be an emotional not logical decision too.
Two years later there are still bad losers.
Having stated that there should be another vote what are you going to do when everyone votes again if a "remain" decison is made and I suggest its null and void because not everyone voted.
Do it a third time............. or a 4th until everyone does...
I can't but help feel the rise of "populism" worldwide is because of the lies and political incompetence we are witnessing just now. People/were are very upset at whats going on (particularly after the GFC) and want change.
That's why Trump got in. He isnt a politician and calls a spade a spade (i'm no fan).....no ********.
A "no deal" hurts everyone globally and thats why I feel its our best chance of the best deal.
It's getting very interesting.
Cheers wattie