rear suspension arms

alexandergs

New Member
Messages
3
Hi all,

I have just bought my GS (UAE) and did everything right had it inspected etc but they missed the fact that the rear balljoints on the suspension arms were perished oh joy!!!!!!

now maserati are asking 1400 pounds each as its the whole assembly. this sounds ridiculous to me. does anyone know of an aftermarket alternative?
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,843
Funny you should mention that...

If you mean the ball joint at the end of the tie rod, we certainly do have alternatives. Hopefully Craig will be along when he wakes up (in the US) with his complete solution. Failing that there are plenty of sources for the bearings / rose joints themselves which can be variously pressed in or bolted on to the existing tie rod.
I myself had one replaced. Total cost (inc fitting) was around £150.

Here's a couple of threads to whet your appetite:
http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/918-Rear-Track-Rod-Arms
http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/sho...pecial-offer-Migliore-Cars?highlight=migliore
http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/10050-4200-Rear-Tie-Rod-End

HTH, and welcome.

C
 

alexandergs

New Member
Messages
3
Catman your a star i will look into this because that is border line robbery!! i know our cars are not mainstream but that is a lot of money without shipping or fitting. AS the saying goes at least dick turpin wore a mask!!
 

BennyD

Sea Urchin Pate
Messages
15,006
I've got a pair of Craig's replacement wishbone arms waiting for me at home. I'll hopefully get them fitted next week and I'll report back.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,843
Catman your a star i will look into this because that is border line robbery!! i know our cars are not mainstream but that is a lot of money without shipping or fitting. AS the saying goes at least dick turpin wore a mask!!

Have you ever seen a Maserati employee ;)

Craig's solution certainly looks the simplest / quickest fix, although you'd need to ship from the US.

C
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,843
I've got a pair of Craig's replacement wishbone arms waiting for me at home. I'll hopefully get them fitted next week and I'll report back.

Be looking forward to it, Benny. I may even get a pair. Although I should only need one in any forseeable future.

C
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
Ahhh Catman, seems like you missed me friend! That's a great feeling in the morning.....LOL! I did finally get up! I was up till 4 am working on a friends Sport Bike helmet he wanted clear-coated...

@Alexander......you know I really don't understand how these guys missed this unless they are uninformed about the suspension of the rear of these type of Maseratis. Is it your ball-joints or tie rod ends? I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same part. We did come up with a great solution I believe as an aftermarket replacement for the rear of our cars for the tie rod ends. To test your rear tie rods, if you jack up the rear of your vehicle just enough so that the tire is off the ground. Put your hands across from each other on the left and right side of the tire. Now use a movement where you push the tire with one hand, and pull it with the other. Go back and forth in each direction. The movement you are looking for that will give you a better illustration is if you were looking at your front tire as someone was steering it to the right and then to the left. Hopefully you can picture the tire going in and out of the fender well as your standing to the side of your car looking at it. That's the movement you are looking for in your tie rods if they are bad only it will NOT be that pronounced. Actually, it will be very slight. It will move just a bit. There should not be ANY movement. The rear tire should not move in any direction. It should feel solid like it's mounted on a solid axle car. If you are still confused maybe I can post a vid on it or something. It's nice to be informed about these things. The rear tie rod controls the toe in/out for the rear of your vehicle, it gives the rear of the car the proper alignment to race around as it does. If the tie rods are gone the rear of your car becomes sloppy, depending on how bad they are it will actually turn as your going down the road and cause you to tail spin as if someone was steering your car from the rear. This is why the rear Tie Rod recall for the Quattroporte was so serious. A few people spun their cars out on the highway and wrecked their cars because of the tie rod failure in the Quattroporte.

When we first came up with the solution for this people had many ideas that we built on, here is the one I settled for. Please follow the link below: http://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/showthread.php/11530-3200-4200-Spyder-and-GranSport-Aftermarket-Rear-Tie-Rod-replacement

I bulked ordered a bunch of material, and I only have 4 sets left now. I ended up putting up an ebay ad so that people could access this solution regardless if they knew of the forums or not. They are more expensive through ebay because I had to pay listing fees, however please let me know if you need them. I had a guy contact me this morning from Australia who plans to purchase all 4 and it will take me at least a two-three week period to get all the material again. It seems that you really need a set if we are talking about the same thing. A complete set which you can get the info of what that contains by the link above is only $200 USD. and if you want it in 3-5 days... shipping I think is $50 USD. I have had mine on the car for a few hundred miles and I am more than happy with them. You will not need anything else when you buy the kit. After you install it get an Alignment (ALWAYS necessary when removing suspension parts), then take it and give it your best shot. Throw it on the track, through the mountains, heck take it 4-wheeling if you want (not recommended). The butt in of the car won't go anywhere. When you hammer it at a light (also not recommend with Police around) the butt end of the car will squat down and push the car straight as it's suppose to......well until your tires become hot then it's going to be like driving on ice! You can PM me if you'd like, or ask any question here on the forum. If you have any concerns just ask them.
 
Last edited:

davy83

Member
Messages
2,826
Hi Alexander. I think one small piece of information missing so far here is that unfortunately the upper and lower ball joints on the rear suspension are prone to failure (20-30k miles) and the only way to repair them is to replace the whole suspension arm, whether upper or lower. These arms direct from Maserati are around £430 each. So if you are really unlucky enough to have all four rear ball joints (not tie rods) gone then in parts alone it would be in the region of £900 a side. if you then take account of shipping and labour that will be where your dealer has come up with £1400 pounds a side. In my view this is a serious weakness in the design. It was done this way to reduce sprung weight, on the suspension and may help handling to some degree, but the joints are clearly not designed for the sort of use they get. The upper front ball joint is the only one that is replaced on its own, and funny enough these don't wear out so quickly! Front lower ball joints also require full arm replacement. I am not aware of any one who has managed to just replace the ball joint. The upside is you also get new suspension arm bushes. You will also need the suspension geometry checked, and adjusted after fitting. Sorry I don't think this is the answer you were looking for, and when the front ball joints on my car went first i was horrified they were gone at all and also the replacements were so expensive, I have got used to the idea now, and have replaced all the ball joints except the upper fronts which are fine.
 

rossyl

Member
Messages
3,312
Guys, can someone please clarify here??? I am really confused.

What is your question?

There are two different this that are being discussed.

1. Tie Rod Ends.

2. Rear upper and lower ball joints.



1. Tie Rod Ends - there is a cheap solution for this.

2. Rear upper and lower ball joints. There is no cheap solution and it requires the whole suspension arm to be changed.

It is therefore important to know what has failed.
 

BennyD

Sea Urchin Pate
Messages
15,006
Just fitted Craigs tie bars and it's a good job I did. There was quite a bit of play in both back wheels. The fitting is a bit fiddly to the extent that I had to cut the old ones in half which made life a lot easier. New ones on and no play whatsoever. The geometry was checked and set and everything is bob-on. I've not been able to test the handling envelope due to the inclement weather but will report back when I do. A timely reminder; I gave it a bit in second on a straight, it spun up, the nose went right and straight at an oncoming car. I wrestled it back and missed him by about 2 feet, I bet he is still sh!tting himself because I am! Let's be careful out there. Oh, and check your back wheels for play.
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
Just fitted Craigs tie bars and it's a good job I did. There was quite a bit of play in both back wheels. The fitting is a bit fiddly to the extent that I had to cut the old ones in half which made life a lot easier. New ones on and no play whatsoever. The geometry was checked and set and everything is bob-on. I've not been able to test the handling envelope due to the inclement weather but will report back when I do. A timely reminder; I gave it a bit in second on a straight, it spun up, the nose went right and straight at an oncoming car. I wrestled it back and missed him by about 2 feet, I bet he is still sh!tting himself because I am! Let's be careful out there. Oh, and check your back wheels for play.

Benny it's great you got them fitted! LOL .....my friend when I was saying to go out and give it a pounding I kinda meant in good weather. If we could come up with a solution to keep you straight in inclement weather and hard driving we'd both be rich!! I do have a question......what did you get stuck on that you had to cut your old rods out? Was it the original jam nut? The one closest to the control arm? I actually used the weight of the car. I jacked the car up, put the wrench on the nut, and lowered the car slowly. When it gets close to the ground position your wrench correctly so there's no play around the nut. You probably should use a block of wood between the ground and your wrench. After you position it correctly just let the jack down. (I know you don't have to worry about this now, but maybe for someone reading or looking to do it afterwards) The weight of the car does the work. Jack the car back up position a jack stand and finish removal. Also after you loosen the tie rod all the way, if you pull the rear hub outward the tie rod will fall right out. It was funny cause I wasn't thinking the first time I did it and tried to remove the tie rod, and fit the new one without just simply pushing the hub outwards and of course it was a whole lot more difficult. I would enjoy hearing your experience.
I don't think I knew the full extent of the difference it would make until actually getting in replacing them, and driving afterward. Do you understand what I mean? I mean before I replaced them the rear of the car was less the par, but it wasn't until I replaced them that I truly realized what less than par was. Was this your experience as well?
I am definitely happy that you got them on your car......write back when you test them in good weather! Oh and don't forget the car is still a beast. The tie rods are going to give you that cornering performance up until you tires go from warm/sticky to hot/slick......I am more than certain you know this already.....after that it's like driving in inclement weather again!!! It was easy for me to get comfortable and I felt like finely it's like she's supposed to be.....up until the hot/slick phase!! ROFL....should have known better! Good for you Benny looking to hear back from you....:auto1::auto178:
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
What is your question?

There are two different this that are being discussed.

1. Tie Rod Ends.

2. Rear upper and lower ball joints.



1. Tie Rod Ends - there is a cheap solution for this.

2. Rear upper and lower ball joints. There is no cheap solution and it requires the whole suspension arm to be changed.

It is therefore important to know what has failed.

+1

@Rossyl I definitely agree. What do you think maybe someone should post a video for these guys wanting to check there tie rods, and ball joints at home to know whether which one is gone? I don't know how many forums actually go into that level of detail for cars but explaining it with words on the forum is going to be a lot more difficult than maybe one the guys posting a video.
 

BennyD

Sea Urchin Pate
Messages
15,006
Craig, the first lock nut was no problem but the one behind was. I could feel the play in the bush itself so I knew they weren't going to go back on so it seemed like the easiest way forward. Once cut, the rod hand screwed out and the new one was fitted. I found the best way to install was to fit the rose joint and then pull the hub outwards, screw the tie rod part way in until the rose joint could just be slid over the end (of the tie bar), push the hub inwards and tighten. That way you get the maximum amount of tie bar thread inside the rose joint. I also found that by taking accurate measurements between the wishbone (where the jam nut screws in) and the centre of the stud going through the rose joint, geometry could be maintained. When the laser gauges were fitted to the car and lit up, the settings were absolutely perfect and no further adjustment was needed. Like I say, the old ones were pretty much shot and a noticeable 'clunk' could be heard when the wheels were rocked backwards and forwards. It seems to have happened quite quickly as there was no play at its MOT earlier this year. Thanks mate, you've just saved me a heap of cash and I would urge any member with the same problem to get in touch with Craig.
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
Craig, the first lock nut was no problem but the one behind was. I could feel the play in the bush itself so I knew they weren't going to go back on so it seemed like the easiest way forward. Once cut, the rod hand screwed out and the new one was fitted. I found the best way to install was to fit the rose joint and then pull the hub outwards, screw the tie rod part way in until the rose joint could just be slid over the end (of the tie bar), push the hub inwards and tighten. That way you get the maximum amount of tie bar thread inside the rose joint. I also found that by taking accurate measurements between the wishbone (where the jam nut screws in) and the centre of the stud going through the rose joint, geometry could be maintained. When the laser gauges were fitted to the car and lit up, the settings were absolutely perfect and no further adjustment was needed. Like I say, the old ones were pretty much shot and a noticeable 'clunk' could be heard when the wheels were rocked backwards and forwards. It seems to have happened quite quickly as there was no play at its MOT earlier this year. Thanks mate, you've just saved me a heap of cash and I would urge any member with the same problem to get in touch with Craig.

Okay, very nice Benny, very nice indeed! Sounds perfect....great suggestions.....it was my honor to help out, it truly was. Anytime I can keep another Mas. enthusiast on the road enjoying their car I feel I did the right thing and helped someone else out in the process. It frees up money for fuel when you don't have to pay $1000 for something that in all good honestly should be exactly a $100 part. :as009:
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
If not a video, maybe a bunch of photo's would make it clearer..??
I think that would sort of work to. Better than just words I think. I only wonder if you'll be able to really give people an idea of the sounds or reaction to the joint itself with only photos was my only concern, but, anything is better than nothing right? Honestly, the tie rod test is the same with almost any car whether front or back. So if you understand it here for the Mas. you can apply it to your BMW; Mercedes; Ford; ect. The design for the steering and suspensions are a proven method, and applies to many makes and models.
 

hodroyd

Member
Messages
14,150
I think most of us understand the wheel stress test to see if you have any movement, it's doing the actual job and the parts involved that would maybe be a help..!!
 

CraigWaterman11

Sponsor
Messages
762
I think most of us understand the wheel stress test to see if you have any movement, it's doing the actual job and the parts involved that would maybe be a help..!!

Are you talking about for the tie rod assemblies.....or the ball joint part? Very sorry hodroyd I must have mis-understood you....I actually already posted a thrown together youtube video showing you how to disassemble the tie rods. I don't think I posted it in this specific thread but in another one about tie rods. I know you already know the control arms have to be replaced when the rear ball joint go bad correct?