Pic of the day

lifes2short

Member
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5,821
Don't mention this, I have a collection of band members collected from Robertsons Jam, I have one that is broken and keep thinking I should search for a replacement but then think of all the noise it would be likely to cause in the internet world so maybe not
and you'll have the boys in blue knocking on your door :lol:, i remember this

 

Oneball

Member
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11,072
So for those of you who didn’t read the link. The reason why black face and golly£&£s are so offensive is that they characterise an entire race of people as stupid, sub-human, rapists who should be feared by whites and excluded from society.
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
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8,795
So for those of you who didn’t read the link. The reason why black face and golly£&£s are so offensive is that they characterise an entire race of people as stupid, sub-human, rapists who should be feared by whites and excluded from society.

And meta-blackface, supposedly unelated to the American prejudicial tradition, such as where Morris dancers have been doing this for hundreds of years (as a disguise), or some white actor has always wanted to play Othello, or someone is dressing up as Michael Jackson for Halloween, is also offensive because it still echoes and resonates with the racist caricature narrative. And don't get me started on Zwarte Piet!
 

Vampyrebat

Member
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3,117
And meta-blackface, supposedly unelated to the American prejudicial tradition, such as where Morris dancers have been doing this for hundreds of years (as a disguise), or some white actor has always wanted to play Othello, or someone is dressing up as Michael Jackson for Halloween, is also offensive because it still echoes and resonates with the racist caricature narrative. And don't get me started on Zwarte Piet!
Which Michael Jackson? The white one or the 'other'??!!
 

GeoffCapes

Member
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14,000
A (white) mate went to a fancy dress party 10-15 years ago dressed as Mr T from the A Team, he looked brilliant, the pic was on Facebook for years until recently where Facebook removed the picture and he was give a 28 day ban for being racist and warned that any future indiscretion could lead to a permanent ban!

Is a white man dressing up as Mr T now considered racist?
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
A (white) mate went to a fancy dress party 10-15 years ago dressed as Mr T from the A Team, he looked brilliant, the pic was on Facebook for years until recently where Facebook removed the picture and he was give a 28 day ban for being racist and warned that any future indiscretion could lead to a permanent ban!

Is a white man dressing up as Mr T now considered racist?
read the link posted by @MarkMas above. Dressing up or dressing up and acting in caricature of stereotypes ?
 

rs48635

Member
Messages
3,181
A (white) mate went to a fancy dress party 10-15 years ago dressed as Mr T from the A Team, he looked brilliant, the pic was on Facebook for years until recently where Facebook removed the picture and he was give a 28 day ban for being racist and warned that any future indiscretion could lead to a permanent ban!

Is a white man dressing up as Mr T now considered racist?
Would you have the chutzpah do this in front of the real live actor B.A. Baracus ?
 

MarkMas

Chief pedant
Messages
8,795
read the link posted by @MarkMas above. Dressing up or dressing up and acting in caricature of stereotypes ?

It is a borderline issue. I think two key tests apply - What are the motives? and Is it intrinsically offensive?

So when I dressed up as Gus Hiddink the other day, I was not trying to offend or caricature Dutch people, and even if I was, there is really no history of prejudice or oppression there, so it does no harm.

If I were to dress up as Mr T, I would have to ask myself was I just picking a favourite TV character, or trying to say something offensive about an absurd black stereotype, asking myself whether the whole beefy, gold chains, dumb haircut vibe was a nasty caricature or a fond homage. The problem is that there is a history of race-based oppression and caricature in this case, so better to be cautious and considerate, IMHO.

There are a couple of well-known Internet examples. One is a photo of a little white American girl dressed as a geisha, which seemed to be 'cultural appropriation' to some people, but seems fine to me (apart from maybe wanting little girls to have better aspirations than geisha, but that's another question). Another was someone who dressed up in a sombrero etc, and then asked California students and Mexican market-stall people if it was offensive. The (edited selection of) students worthily said 'oh, that's terrible', but the (edited selection of) real Mexicans said, 'who give a shirt, we have other things to worry about'. But, again, it is intent that matters - a bunch of drunk white frat boys wearing ponchos and yelling 'Ole' at passing Hispanic students is definitely oppressive, but wearing a fun hat on holiday because it is very sunny seems fine.

There is also geographical relativism. An American colleague once asked me, "Do you have many Hispanics in Europe and how are they treated?" I responded that they are treated pretty well in, er, Spain." Obvio, 'Hispanic' in the US means 'brownish immigrant who speaks a funny language', but here it means 'dodgy beach waiter who is trying to get off with your teenage daughter', 'white member of the European community, with a noble heritage'.

It's a fricking minefield.
 

Oneball

Member
Messages
11,072
A (white) mate went to a fancy dress party 10-15 years ago dressed as Mr T from the A Team, he looked brilliant, the pic was on Facebook for years until recently where Facebook removed the picture and he was give a 28 day ban for being racist and warned that any future indiscretion could lead to a permanent ban!

Is a white man dressing up as Mr T now considered racist?

In my opinion it depends if you do it in blackface and the impression that gives today.
The problem with the minstrels and the dolls is that they were specifically intend to be racist by their creators and that’s why some people find it so offensive.