New F1 season - 2022

[Wattie]

What a World that many think that Cheating was acceptable.
We were taught at school it wasn't and when I once thought it clever too I got the cane in the days when they felt they could hurt you and it did.

Yup but you went back for more

 

[Andyk]

Sure I read that Red Bull have said it was for catering but I may be looking at this in simple terms but that makes no difference as if they kept to the cap they would have still spend the money on catering meaning they had less to spend in car development.

 

[outrun]

They all cheat essentially, it's the subtelty of interpreting the complex rules that separates the winners from the losers. The difference here seems to be that Red Bull simply hired a rubbish accounting team and therefore they stupidly submitted an overspend. But even in that, they are claiming they interpreted the rules on what is and what is not included in the spend cap differently from others. So they are even cheating with their catering.

The cap itself is a good thing as it serves to tighten the field and gives the smaller teams a chance to compete. But what's a cap if you don't get punished for breaching it?

As Toto has said, if the punishment is purely financial then Mercedes will breach the cap and pay the fines. Winning is more important than ethics.

I expect Red Bull will have points deducted from this years' constructors championship, a decent sized fine and a reduction in wind tunnel development for next year. This should give Mercedes and Ferrari the wee edge they need to close the gap and make next year more exciting. I don't see the FIA opening sore wounds from last year, or effecting this year's driver's championship where Max was clearly in a league of his own, overspend or not. But they should apply measures which aim to tighten the field and make next year closer. If they do deduct contructor's points, this will also affect prize money and further punish RB financially, regardless of them having a seemingly bottomless pit of money from that horrible energy drink **** that they peddle to teenagers.

Controversy is never far behind F1, it's always been that way. I bet Toto, Binotto, Zak Brown etc are shouting to anyone who will listen while also secretly hoping nobody finds out what they did to cheat...

 

[midlifecrisis]

Next year, Red Bull trucks will be outside Lidl/Aldi

 

[Swedish Paul]

They all cheat essentially, it's the subtelty of interpreting the complex rules that separates the winners from the losers. The difference here seems to be that Red Bull simply hired a rubbish accounting team and therefore they stupidly submitted an overspend. But even in that, they are claiming they interpreted the rules on what is and what is not included in the spend cap differently from others. So they are even cheating with their catering.

The cap itself is a good thing as it serves to tighten the field and gives the smaller teams a chance to compete. But what's a cap if you don't get punished for breaching it?

As Toto has said, if the punishment is purely financial then Mercedes will breach the cap and pay the fines. Winning is more important than ethics.

I expect Red Bull will have points deducted from this years' constructors championship, a decent sized fine and a reduction in wind tunnel development for next year. This should give Mercedes and Ferrari the wee edge they need to close the gap and make next year more exciting. I don't see the FIA opening sore wounds from last year, or effecting this year's driver's championship where Max was clearly in a league of his own, overspend or not. But they should apply measures which aim to tighten the field and make next year closer. If they do deduct contructor's points, this will also affect prize money and further punish RB financially, regardless of them having a seemingly bottomless pit of money from that horrible energy drink **** that they peddle to teenagers.

Controversy is never far behind F1, it's always been that way. I bet Toto, Binotto, Zak Brown etc are shouting to anyone who will listen while also secretly hoping nobody finds out what they did to cheat...

Lots of us have companies. You submit your accounts to the tax office, that’s what should be judged as most folks won’t want to fall foul of the tax man. Adrian Newey is a contractor apparently and so his payments are not included. But in my company, I hire a contractor or an employee, it makes no difference.

 

[D Walker]

Lots of us have companies. You submit your accounts to the tax office, that’s what should be judged as most folks won’t want to fall foul of the tax man. Adrian Newey is a contractor apparently and so his payments are not included. But in my company, I hire a contractor or an employee, it makes no difference.

I wonder if Newey has been an employee. As we all know coming back as a contractor in the same role is a no no. I wonder who his suitable substitute is for IR 35.
I guess all the other teams now do is make lol the engineers contractors. Spend all the dosh on car.

 

[Tallman]

Lots of us have companies. You submit your accounts to the tax office, that’s what should be judged as most folks won’t want to fall foul of the tax man. Adrian Newey is a contractor apparently and so his payments are not included. But in my company, I hire a contractor or an employee, it makes no difference.

I think its the other way around. They can exclude a large number of things from the cap. Amongst those, the drivers salary and three other key personnel. For Red Bull Adrian Newey was one of the nominated three. But because of the status of his employment the FIA seems to disagree. If this is the case then in my view it is a moot point, employee or contractor, thats just an accounting/tax issue which should not affect the cap. It’s just semantics. But at this stage we only hear rumours so we will have to wait to find out what the real story is. But Toto, Zak and Beanotto are sure making the most of it, just like Horner would have done if it wasn’t Red Bull. So we need to see through that and basically ignore anything that they say as it is just vested interests talking.

 

[Swedish Paul]

I wonder if Newey has been an employee. As we all know coming back as a contractor in the same role is a no no. I wonder who his suitable substitute is for IR 35.
I guess all the other teams now do is make lol the engineers contractors. Spend all the dosh on car.

Exactly. A budget is a budget. The exclusions make the whole exercise pointless.

 

[Swedish Paul]

I think its the other way around. They can exclude a large number of things from the cap. Amongst those, the drivers salary and three other key personnel. For Red Bull Adrian Newey was one of the nominated three. But because of the status of his employment the FIA seems to disagree. If this is the case then in my view it is a moot point, employee or contractor, thats just an accounting/tax issue which should not affect the cap. It’s just semantics. But at this stage we only hear rumours so we will have to wait to find out what the real story is. But Toto, Zak and Beanotto are sure making the most of it, just like Horner would have done if it wasn’t Red Bull. So we need to see through that and basically ignore anything that they say as it is just vested interests talking.

Exactly. Semantics. The whole thing is pointless.

 

[Swedish Paul]

And you can guarantee that this year, everyone has caught on and they will all be doing their creative reporting, because it’s certainly not accounting.

 

[midlifecrisis]

As I said earlier I have every confidence the FIA wrote a set of unambiguous rules, stating was is included and what is not, I also have every confidence that the punishment will fit the crime once the extra scrutiny, due diligence and appeal has been performed punctiliously.

Until then, everything on this thread is pure conjecture.

 

[Wattie]

……Until then, everything on this thread is pure conjecture.

Yup.
Apart from my posts which were not only brilliant but very inciteful too.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Yup.
Apart from my posts which were not only brilliant but were inciteful too.

I wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Phil H]

Until then, everything on this thread is pure conjecture.

So, by definition your post is pure conjecture - which means the other posts may not be.

 

[midlifecrisis]

So, by definition your post is pure conjecture - which means the other posts may not be.

Schrödinger's post

 

[Wattie]

Schrödinger's post

I’ve done a quick forum search and can’t find anyone here called “Schrödinger”. Maybe you’re thinking of another forum he posted on?

 

[philw696]

I’ve done a quick forum search and can’t find anyone here called “Schrödinger”. Maybe you’re thinking of another forum he posted on?

You've had a haircut mate

 

[Oneball]

I wonder if Newey has been an employee. As we all know coming back as a contractor in the same role is a no no. I wonder who his suitable substitute is for IR 35.
I guess all the other teams now do is make lol the engineers contractors. Spend all the dosh on car.

Newey cheats at everything, even in historics, tax man is probably no different.

 

[midlifecrisis]

Newey cheats at everything, even in historics, tax man is probably no different.

No he looks for loopholes, as everyone else does. Made a career out of it according to his book as did Gordon Murray and other designers

 

[Oneball]

No he looks for loopholes, as everyone else does. Made a career out of it according to his book as did Gordon Murray and other designers

Carbon fibre GT40s and illegal E-types aren’t loopholes. His Jag was so bad at Goodwood this year even Motorsport made a comment, “how shall we put this? – slightly evolved deviation from period spec”