Neutral to 1st Gear Glitch..

[dm2]

I've had two 4200CCs in the last 2 years and both have exhibited the following behaviour:
1) Sitting at the traffic lights in N waiting for lights to change
2) Lights change
3) Pull on Up paddle to engage 1st
4) Wait for several seconds
5) Eventually engages 2nd, although sometimes 1st

Both cars did this, originally I had a 2002 model and now a 2004 model. Can't replicate it on demand, just decides to be a pain perhaps once or twice a month (I drive the car every day and do 1500 or so miles a month). Both had new clutches when I acquired them.

SD diagnostics don't reveal a systemic problem.

I'm not terribly concerned as the car does engage and the problem is very infrequent (although seems to happen only when I have a long queue of impatient motorists behind me lol), but any views?

Cheers!

 

[philw696]

Mine ie exactly the same does not do it very often but did last night in traffic and pull away in 2nd with a little squeal think its an Italian female trait.

 

[Maser Sod]

Could it be related to your foot pressure on the brake? (relationship between brake + gear change)

I would suggest to all CC users to remain in 1st gear at lights. The clutch wear is zero to negligible and life is much more convenient. You can tell when you are genuinely stressing out a clutch because it smells!

 

[Parisien]

Happens me too......just make sure you've a firm contact on brake pedal, if needs be, take foot off and reapply. Just a feature of the CCs.

If in heavy stop start traffic, am tempted to leave in first at times..........not cute when lights goes green and it take 5/6/7 secs to engage!


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[conaero]

I had this and I know what it is and you wont like it. Its your spring fingers or tangs on your clutch cover bent or collapsing on one side.

When mine went, there was no noise, just pulling up to a roundabout in France dropped it in to Neutral as I always do, then went for 1st, and there was a lot of gear selection coming from the back of the car, then it would give me second. When I finally got on the motorway, the clutch would slip at high revs badly but I could nurse it home. I then hit traffic and that is when I called the tow truck. If I had known it was the clutch and I could have done no more damage I might have risked it, but the beauty of hindsight I suppose.

So mine was a total failure, this is common with the single tang clutch covers they used to put in the early cars, insist upon a dual tang clutch cover if you ever have to have it done.

Of course it could be another issue in your cars but I suspect its early signs that your clutch is on its way.

 

[Maser Sod]

What reg was your car Matt, I thought it was an LE?

 

[lozcb]

Double tang clutches were standard as from late 2003 uplift models on 4200, and from initaition of the GS , im pretty sure all GS were fitted with double tang clutches


regards loz

 

[dm2]

I had heard about your issue previously Matt. The car I have now is an 04 model year - does anyone know whether by that stage the standard part was already dual tang I wonder. The clutch on this was fitted only last year by Marios of Autoshield - I will call him and see if he knows whether the car had single or dual tangs (whatever they are lol). So is this tang thing anything to do with the clutch plate itself or part of the clutch mechanism - i.e. does it get changed with the clutch or is it a separate thing which is convenient to do when the clutch is being replaced?

 

[dm2]

Oh, looks like Loz's message crossed with mine. Mine is registered in September 2004 - so dual tang thing or single tang thing? Cheers!

 

[lozcb]

I had heard about your issue previously Matt. The car I have now is an 04 model year - does anyone know whether by that stage the standard part was already dual tang I wonder. The clutch on this was fitted only last year by Marios of Autoshield - I will call him and see if he knows whether the car had single or dual tangs (whatever they are lol). So is this tang thing anything to do with the clutch plate itself or part of the clutch mechanism - i.e. does it get changed with the clutch or is it a separate thing which is convenient to do when the clutch is being replaced?

Its actually part of the clutch assembly , so regardless ,if Marios fitted you a clucth last year then most definately will be double tang , as single tang were discontinued , as 2004- 4200 you should have had double tang from the off , but whose to say how long the car was in transit/stored for before it was first sold




regards loz

 

[Parisien]

Matt, according to the last SD read out in June, there is no wear at all on my clutch, it was replaced at 28K miles, now done 52k!

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[barbuckle]

If it only happens occasionally then this is normal behaviour for the car - if the first gear shift takes a lot of pressure the system tries for second instead. It is documented in the manual.
I assume this is because sometimes from rest the synchro gives a notchy change into first? Rather than leaving the pump to exhaust itself trying for first it tries second (which always works?!?)

Happens on single-tang and dual tang clutches (I have used both) but should be a rare event.

 

[Parisien]

Good info Barbuckle...thanks for that


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[Emtee]

Agree with MS regarding leaving the car in first when standing for short periods of time, but with foot firmly on the brake to make sure the brake pedal switch isn't 'twitching'.

DM2, Do you know whether the release bearing was renewed along with the clutch? If this is sticking, then as Barbuckle mentions this will throw un-programmed pressure into the system and so it will go searching for a less resistant route to complete the command.

Equally likely, this could just be a sporadic glitch within what is after all the basic programming of an aged robotic clutch system.

 

[conaero]

Never ever had any selection before or after having my failed cluch replaced. Meridian told me that my clutch cover was single tang in a 2006 LE Gransport and was changed a year ago by a main dealer under warranty, naughty, very naughty!

They also stated in the paper work that the bearing was changed, it had not been!

 

[dm2]

Thanks all for the input. I will get in touch with Marios and see if he can remember what was replaced when the clutch was changed. I got her serviced at Shiltech in Loughborough most recently (2 months ago), will also see if he has an opinion, although the SD diagnostic appeared to say nothing out of the ordinary. However Geoff (Shiltech) did say it didn't engage when they had her in and noted that the problem he found was that sometimes the brake sensor is either sticking or not activating so the car didn't want to go from N in to any gear (including R).

It is a very rare occurrence but often enough - probably a couple of times a month although I drive the car every day. If I was driving her less often it might be months between these glitches. It's mildly annoying as going from N to 2 takes several seconds and one feels like a dork sitting there whilst the car is deciding to let you pull away!

 

[conaero]

Matt, according to the last SD read out in June, there is no wear at all on my clutch, it was replaced at 28K miles, now done 52k!

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So about as accurate as usual then. I would say that I suspect your clutch Frank, 25k miles is about all you will get from a clutch under normal conditions infact its very good as my GS had 2 cluches in its first 30k miles, one at 17k, the other at 26k.

The previous owner drove round in auto all the time, a lesson there I feel.

 

[Parisien]

But Matt we are continually told that auto is bad for our clutches!!!

Am very light footed Matt...its frightening.....at times I would give UM a run.....sorry crawl for his money....


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[conaero]

But Matt we are continually told that auto is bad for our clutches!!!

Am very light footed Matt...its frightening.....at times I would give UM a run.....sorry crawl for his money....


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Fair enough Frank, I still remember the look on your and your wifes face when I gunned it down the dual carraigeway from Arnage to the circuit entrance with the pair of you in the back seat, I though at the time, "I bet they think I am a right yobo!"

HAPPY DAYS

 

[Parisien]

Yup Matt....very happy days they were...hopefully to be repeated!

It was the Larinis at full belt that made us smile.......I loved it.........it was great hanging out with a yobo.....


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