Mclaren 650s - don't shoot!

[azapa]

To those who have driven one, or the 570 etc. What do you think? I am a little too close to a 650s now, and we are getting to the man-math part, so am getting worried.

I was (still am) in love with a 458 Spider, but the right one never showed at the right price, and the main dealers (or better, their sales people) gave me such a bad ride that I get shudders driving past the place. So the 650s is looming.

It will be a 2015 model (probably late 2014 build). Has 12K miles on clock. A little scruffy (all relative, my Strad still looks showroom new) but OK as I plan a GT3 look-a-like build with tear down and full respray. Most of which I am hoping to do myself.

I have driven a few, and they really blow me away, more that the 458/488 etc. The 500 lb/ft torque is insane, yet the car feels easy to drive when pootling.

Bit of a ramble here. To the point:

a. Opinions of anyone that has really driven with one or lived with one most appreciated.
b. Can anyone recommend a Mclaren Forum?
Thanks!

 

[outrun]

I hope you're keeping the Strad too. McLaren's are amazing bits of tech but for me, they are just not interesting. I do get it of course but I just don't feel any soul there, regardless of how fast they are. Sorry!

 

[azapa]

Cheers Outrun for the reply. Keeping the strad is the plan (but I need to build a nice space for it, so that is a factor).

With all due respect to your opinion, I thought the same too, because, I now realize, the internet said it. Driving one is another mater though. Try one if you can. I can't see how anyone who has can say they are not an interesting drive. What I can say against them, and the brand in general:

- they are not deep down pretty - even the 570 spider, my favorite looking, is contrived and design-schooly
- they seem to have a kit car "drive and see what breaks"mentality, that the factory supports well enough for it not to be an issue. You know those arctic and desert test drives that Porshe and BMW do? Well, in Mclaren terms that is called 'warranty'.
- They will never sound that good, but that is what the Strad is for.

 

[outrun]

As your keeping the Stradale, I'll go easy on the McLaren plan (says the guy who just sold his Stradale!).

I've driven the 570 and the 12C and was amazed by both however I genuinely feel that the speed and capability is not something I need and without the drama, the wow factor would wear off quickly for me. I experienced this when I bought a 911 turbo s that was so amazing for about 3 months and then I realised that my Mum could drive it at 100mph around a roundabout, there was no noise to speak off and if I wanted to make it slide, I would probably lose my licence trying. As I said, I totally understand the attraction but they're not for me.

I would love to have been able to keep my Stradale as well as get something else. One day I may buy it back....

 

[iainw]

To those who have driven one, or the 570 etc. What do you think? I am a little too close to a 650s now, and we are getting to the man-math part, so am getting worried.

I was (still am) in love with a 458 Spider, but the right one never showed at the right price, and the main dealers (or better, their sales people) gave me such a bad ride that I get shudders driving past the place. So the 650s is looming.

It will be a 2015 model (probably late 2014 build). Has 12K miles on clock. A little scruffy (all relative, my Strad still looks showroom new) but OK as I plan a GT3 look-a-like build with tear down and full respray. Most of which I am hoping to do myself.

I have driven a few, and they really blow me away, more that the 458/488 etc. The 500 lb/ft torque is insane, yet the car feels easy to drive when pootling.

Bit of a ramble here. To the point:

a. Opinions of anyone that has really driven with one or lived with one most appreciated.
b. Can anyone recommend a Mclaren Forum?
Thanks!

Please stick with the 458 spider. Your bank manager would agree with me. The sound with the top down is a different league.

 

[azapa]

As your keeping the Stradale, I'll go easy on the McLaren plan (says the guy who just sold his Stradale!).

.

You sold the Strad! Grimace of disapproval from the other side of the world.

What did you replace it with?

Had a brilliant drive last Saturday out to a vinyard. 4 hours in all, from wide perfect highways to narrow B roads with potholes and the sun in my face. The Strad was perfect (after the first 20 minutes of trying to kill me). Effortless pace, fun, the sound! I could never imagine the same thing in another car.

I have not driven a 12c, but the previous owner of the stradale bought one and hates it. I guess the best scenario is the two in the garage.

More seriously though, I am told the 650s was quite a large retake of the 12c and solved many design and feel failings. Let's see!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[conaero]

A 458 is a lovely motor. For me it would be the coupe as the Spider is, well, a little ‘open’ for my taste but it’s a lovely car, no doubt there.

The Strad is not the fastest kid on the block but it is one that gets under your skin and as Athol points out, it’s not the bee all and end all but a very special car.

If you have the means to keep both I would, that’s a given.

 

[azapa]

Please stick with the 458 spider. Your bank manager would agree with me. The sound with the top down is a different league.

Truth is Iain, the 458 Spider was about 145K GBP, the (all be it higher mileage) 650s about 120K. I really am yearning to get my hands dirty, so taking the 650s apart to do GT3 paint job, and maybe some mods to the turbos, exhaust etc, will be a fun way to use the difference.

 

[BennyD]

The 650s is a great car but, personally, I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole. Whilst as a drivers car they tick all the right boxes, as a possession they have the ability to financially rape you then cr4p on your corpse. I know two people who have one, both spiders. One has been a ‘problem’ car and the other has been, relatively ok. However, the ok one, a 2014, with about 9000 miles has dropped from £163k to about £120ish in the last 18 months. It’s white with a FMSH and is a great spec with everything in carbon as an extra. MacLaren will want approx £500 for a warranty inspection and another £3900 p/a for a warranty. The other, a 2015 in Volcano red, was bought new and was specced up to £243k, and has now got 20k miles is now worth approx £135-140k. This too is coming up for an annual warranty. It needed a new battery and the owner was quoted £2500 plus fitting. The hydraulic pump, IIRC, is approx £13k. Also, there is no overseas support network so if you get an ECL or it goes into limp mode it will require a flatbed back to the UK and that’s the end of your holiday. A fantastic car but it comes with potential nightmares. Best you join the owners club and get a feel for the liabilities you could well be buying yourself.

 

[Andyk]

I've driven a 12c and it's still the best car I've ever driven. McLaren has taken the fight to Ferrari and for me they look better than Ferrari's and are now more interesting cars. Ferrari's used to be pretty now they are over styled and for me have lost the plot style wise. Just look inside...Ferraris look like they have been designed by Fisher Price, Mclarens are minimalistic and better for it. Everything in its place and the driving position is much better. Yes they hold their value certainly here better than McLaren but that wouldn't bother me.....also you look a cock in a Ferrari if you are a certain age..(my age)...Onky thing with Mckaren is the sound...You need together some kind of sports exhaust.

 

[iainw]

The 650s is a great car but, personally, I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole. Whilst as a drivers car they tick all the right boxes, as a possession they have the ability to financially rape you then cr4p on your corpse. I know two people who have one, both spiders. One has been a ‘problem’ car and the other has been, relatively ok. However, the ok one, a 2014, with about 9000 miles has dropped from £163k to about £120ish in the last 18 months. It’s white with a FMSH and is a great spec with everything in carbon as an extra. MacLaren will want approx £500 for a warranty inspection and another £3900 p/a for a warranty. The other, a 2015 in Volcano red, was bought new and was specced up to £243k, and has now got 20k miles is now worth approx £135-140k. This too is coming up for an annual warranty. It needed a new battery and the owner was quoted £2500 plus fitting. The hydraulic pump, IIRC, is approx £13k. Also, there is no overseas support network so if you get an ECL or it goes into limp mode it will require a flatbed back to the UK and that’s the end of your holiday. A fantastic car but it comes with potential nightmares. Best you join the owners club and get a feel for the liabilities you could well be buying yourself.

Sadly I have to agree ++ with Benny. Bloody on the money. I agree with you too Azapa - its tempting as one drove past me yesterday and it looked divine. I just think even allowing for man maths - the extra 25k will disappear in no time. I have been amazed at how well the 458 italia is holding money. And every time it sneezes ferrari are all over it with courtesy cars, covered recovery etc at no cost. I have even been offered trade prices close to what I paid if I wanted to change cars. Over the past year, 570s I was looking at have dropped 10-20k. Admittedly they are newer and the 650s may be lower on the depreciation curve.

 

[Andyk]

650 does seem to have slowed down depreciation wise. It's the new cars that seem to fall quicker than the competition.

 

[zagatoes30]

Not that it is something I need to worry about but I would buy a McLaren over a Fezza everyday, a 570GT would be my everyday car of choice but only when those lottery numbers come up - I doubt i will hold my breath

 

[azapa]

bought new and was specced up to £243k, and has now got 20k miles is now worth approx £135-140k.

Benny, you have hit the nail on the head. That's why I'm thinking about these cars. I can't see them loosing that much value again. The other stuff you mention (shipping to UK for maintenance etc) is just the internet rubbish that has driven these prices down. My biggest problem now is the kit-car reliability of major components. The one I'm looking at has already had a new gearbox (yes, fitted here, on the other side of the world, by a Mclaren trained, equipped and authorised workshop).

Any pointers to a good Mclaren Forum, anywhere in the world?

 

[azapa]

Sadly I have to agree ++ with Benny. Bloody on the money. I agree with you too Azapa - its tempting as one drove past me yesterday and it looked divine. I just think even allowing for man maths - the extra 25k will disappear in no time. I have been amazed at how well the 458 italia is holding money. And every time it sneezes ferrari are all over it with courtesy cars, covered recovery etc at no cost. I have even been offered trade prices close to what I paid if I wanted to change cars. Over the past year, 570s I was looking at have dropped 10-20k. Admittedly they are newer and the 650s may be lower on the depreciation curve.

Iain. The closer I have come to purchase a Ferrari the less I like the experience/owners/snobbery around them. Mclaren, here at least, has no such label yet. The UK has a more developed, horizontal car culture, and you can find nice owners in all the marques. My daily driver is a pushbike, does not add up, to most, here.

 

[outrun]

Benny, you have hit the nail on the head. That's why I'm thinking about these cars. I can't see them loosing that much value again. The other stuff you mention (shipping to UK for maintenance etc) is just the internet rubbish that has driven these prices down. My biggest problem now is the kit-car reliability of major components. The one I'm looking at has already had a new gearbox (yes, fitted here, on the other side of the world, by a Mclaren trained, equipped and authorised workshop).

Any pointers to a good Mclaren Forum, anywhere in the world?

Really? The 12C is now fallen below 100k retail (so 80ish trade) and as they are making loads of McLarens and de-valuing each of them with a special editions that hammer current values every time they do it (which is a new edition every other week it seems with them), I wouldn't say they don't have some way to fall yet. All cars depreciate with only the odd exception. Of course the market in Chile could be completely different!

I'd have one, don't get me wrong, I just wouldn't choose one.

 

[azapa]

The Super car market is quite level worldwide. Prices are so hard to pluck out of the air in the used market that most sellers use internet sites from around the world, US$ > local currency. 12c's are cheap, but they (to me) have become to look like Mclarens prototyping phase rather than a production ready car. Buying a used supercar is a bit like the stock market, in and out, looking for a bargain.

EDIT: I do agree Outrun, that Mclaren does not manage its brand well and is trashing it's value (as well as being heavily in debt). Ferrari is the master there, no doubt - effortless, perfect.

 

[Andyk]

Not that it is something I need to worry about but I would a McLaren over a Fezza everyday, a 570GT would be my everyday car of choice but only when those lottery numbers come up - I doubt i will hold my breath

Me to...although for me it would be the 570 Spider. Just stunning.

 

[zagatoes30]

Me to...although for me it would be the 570 Spider. Just stunning.

I sometimes wonder about how similar our tastes and thought processes are

 

[azapa]

The 570 spyder is a lovely thing, they have a silver metalic with dark red interior in the local dealers. 260K!!! Buy it and sell it in a year for 160 if you are lucky. Fickle market!