MC-Shift dropping into N - Granturismo Sport.

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
As above, I have a 2013 (MY14) GT Sport MC-shift. I've had it just over 2 years now and its my second GT MC shift, I love them.

Background - Bought at 19k miles with 48% clutch wear.

During my first winter of ownership, maybe half a dozen times, it dropped into N when down changing from 3 to 2. It only ever did it when it was sub zero temperatures, and within the first couple of miles of the journey. Once up to temp, it never did it, so wasn't really an issue.
During warmer temps in the summer, again never did it.
Second winter (last winter) - Happened much more frequently (maybe once or twice every journey), but again mainly when cold.
Now it does it a few times every journey when dropping from 3 to 2, drops into N.
Also, it will now occasionally (but still most journeys) drop into N when changing 4th to 5th, but only when on very slight/part throttle. If it under load, and accelerating hard, its doesn't do it ever.
Temperature no longer seems to make a difference.

Car is now on 30k miles (so thought it might be new clutch time) and just had major service.

Current clutch readings are;
New clutch position = 19.92mm
Self calibrated closed clutch position = 21.93mm
PIS 3.93mm

Am I right in thinking the the clutch isn't at end of life, as that would usually be nearer 24.5 mm ?

Other info from service.
Hyd circuit pressure 44Bar,

Stored codes - P1770 - Gear engagements with wrong shifts-invalid signal
P 1771 - Gearbox input high RPM-invalid signal

The Tech carried out a gearbox re-lean, but this doesn't seem to have made a difference.

I did find this very helpful thread when searching, but it refers to coupe/spider/GS - Is the F1 in those similar enough for the info to be useful to me? F1 Clutch Replacement

The only fluid that wasn't replaced (and probably never has been) is the F1 hydraulic fluid, as I believe that is not on the service schedule.

So, judging from the above thread, I assume that replacing and bleeding the F1 Hydraulic fluid would be a logical next step?

Any other suggestions of likely culprits from those in the know?

Thanks in advance.
 

JJbing

Member
Messages
433
I know you’ve already done it, but software update / relearn fixed mine as it was identical wear % to yours, never had an issue after that.
Greypaul Nottingham were great.
 

azapa

Member
Messages
1,280
Mine has done that a few times, but I'd bet you'll find few that have not. Unless it's very frequent I would not bother. Driving the car more would probably help (certainly in my case).
 

marios kriticos

SPONSOR: Autosheild
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242
Sam
Sometimes the bleed screws at the back of the F1 actuator go loose and you can be loosing pressure .
If they go loose it will drop out of gear as your slowing down .
Marios
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Mine has done that a few times, but I'd bet you'll find few that have not. Unless it's very frequent I would not bother. Driving the car more would probably help (certainly in my case).
Yeah, I've heard a few mention similar on here over the years. And as you say, you can forgive it now and again, but mine has recently got to the point where its 'too' often now, and it bugs me.
I drive it very regularly and doing 5-6k a year.
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Sam
Sometimes the bleed screws at the back of the F1 actuator go loose and you can be loosing pressure .
If they go loose it will drop out of gear as your slowing down .
Marios
Thanks Marios! I was just reading something similar on Ferrari chat about the bleed screws.
Would there not be signs of a small leak if any were loose? I'll check them regardless, assuming I can get to them with it all in situ.
Is it worth flushing the Hydraulic oil and replacing with fresh while I'm there?
 

Cdn17Sport6MT

Junior Member
Messages
36
Thanks Marios! I was just reading something similar on Ferrari chat about the bleed screws.
Would there not be signs of a small leak if any were loose? I'll check them regardless, assuming I can get to them with it all in situ.
Is it worth flushing the Hydraulic oil and replacing with fresh while I'm there?
Those are slotted-head screws. The only possible way (and Others, please jump-in here) is maybe with an offset/90° slotted screwdriver... actually, two... with varied/different "slot" blade angles. This may not be possible due to extremely limited clearance and the possibility of stripping the screws. If it were possible in situ that'd be great, because that'd mean you could also do an actuator bleed with it in situ, saving big $, averting the need to drop parking brake cables and exhaust system, and then pulling the actuator off the transaxle case, with all hoses still attached. You are looking at the latter labour if the offset screw drivers will not fit.

Note that if the offset screwdrivers will fit, then engage them in the screw head, and fit an exact fitting piece of flatbar behind it to prevent the blade from stripping the screw. Take time to do this right... if indeed this can be done in this manner.
 
Last edited:

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Your PIS is too low it should be 4.19, plus a gearbox relearn and you might be alright. Swing by if you would like it set, FOC
Thanks Matt, a very kind offer!
I only wish you weren't 3 hours away. Not to say I won't, as I do like a road trip lol.

I'll give it some thought, thanks.

What's your thoughts on the PIS being low then? The clutch doesn't drag at all.
Is the 4.19 just a figure you've learnt though trial and error? or was it calculated using my clutch position figures?
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Those are slotted-head screws. The only possible way (and Others, please jump-in here) is maybe with an offset/90° slotted screwdriver... actually, two... with varied/different "slot" blade angles. This may not be possible due to extremely limited clearance and the possibility of stripping the screws. If it were possible in situ that'd be great, because that'd mean you could also do an actuator bleed with it in situ, saving big $, averting the need to drop parking brake cables and exhaust system, and then pulling the actuator off the transaxle case, with all hoses still attached. You are looking at the latter labour if the offset screw drivers will not fit.

Note that if the offset screwdrivers will fit, then engage them in the screw head, and fit an exact fitting piece of flatbar behind it to prevent the blade from stripping the screw. Take time to do this right... if indeed this can be done in this manner.
Thanks for the detailed description. I'll have a Google to see if anyone has managed to do it in situ.... It'd be a shame to have remove half of it, just to do a bleed and or check they're not loose.
I imagine it might be on the more difficult end of the scale, as that would explain why people don't replace the hydraulic oil as a matter of course.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
33,006
Thanks Matt, a very kind offer!
I only wish you weren't 3 hours away. Not to say I won't, as I do like a road trip lol.

I'll give it some thought, thanks.

What's your thoughts on the PIS being low then? The clutch doesn't drag at all.
Is the 4.19 just a figure you've learnt though trial and error? or was it calculated using my clutch position figures?
The 4.19 is what the system defaults to. Anything different then it’s been overridden by someone. It’s also possible a clutch position sensor issue or a poorly fitted clutch pack
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Just to update, last week I received my Launch X431 pro mini and had a play.
As Matt suggested, I had a bit of an experiment with increasing PIS over a coupe of days trying several different positions, and a couple of gearbox re-learns, eventually finding that 4.30mm seemed to be the happy place.
I've now done about 150miles of mixed driving and it hasn't dropped into N once (He says touching wood). So its looking very promising !
It does feel a little different now, as its a bit slower to bite now, but a small sacrifice to make, and I'm sure after a while I won't even notice. If it bothers me, I'll slowly start lowering it again bit by bit and see how it goes.
 

Sam McGoo

Member
Messages
1,308
Could there be any downsides to deviating away from 4.19?
I'd assume slightly slower gear change, and a bit more clutch slip when pulling away.
On the flip side, it seems to be a bit smother when pottering around.

I do prefer it a bit more aggressive personally, hense I might continue to play with it. Although..... As its working... I might not.. Lol.

From what I've read, the best way to set it up, is to lower it until the input shaft starts to turn, then back it off a touch. That gives the quickest engagement with the least slip.
I think that was about where mine was originally, but obviously my gearbox didn't like it much, so will have to compromise.
 
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CatmanV2

Member
Messages
42,803
I'd assume slightly slower gear change, and a bit more clutch slip when pulling away.
On the flip side, it seems to be a bit smother when pottering around.

I do prefer it a bit more aggressive personally, hense I might continue to play with it. Although..... As its working... I might not.. Lol.

From what I've read, the best way to set it up, is to lower it until the input shaft starts to turn, then back it off a touch. That gives the quickest engagement with the least slip.
I think that was about where mine was originally, but obviously my gearbox didn't like it much, so will have to compromise.
This is what Voicey did with mine. Then we drove. Decided if we liked it, drove some more and so on.

C