Maserati & Diesels

[conaero]

Ok, this is not a thread aimed at the negative affect that members had with the introduction of a diesel, its more to do with what we all feel will happen to Maserati in light of the recent diesel scandal.

The chat at Ace Cafe yesterday was what impact the phasing out of diesels will have on Maserati who have invested heavily in them so recently?

 

[Contigo]

They will have no choice but to the use the V6 TT lump. It will force their hand for sure.

 

[conaero]

They will have no choice but to the use the V6 TT lump. It will force their hand for sure.

Well, thats what we expect yes but what about the financial investment?

Maserati have geared up for diesel production. I am guessing but I suspect 75% of their current cars a shipping with diesel engines.

Take away the diesel, what happens?

It all looks very worrying for Maserati

 

[conaero]

...or do we think a miracle clean diesel will come out and the problem will disappear?

 

[MrMickS]

The EURO6 diesel is clean in comparison with older diesels and better, in some respects, than the petrol. In terms of gearing up on a modern production line, like the one that assembles the diesels, it shouldn't be too difficult to swap to petrol only if the regulations around them make them less appealing to drivers. The only issue would be having to ramp up the petrol engine supply.

I can't see Maserati switching away from diesel unless others do, sadly its where the market those cars are aimed at is. The only exception to this would be to switch to an electric platform. Once that becomes viable I think that diesel will die a nasty horrible death. We are probably only 3-4 years away from that.

 

[midlifecrisis]

A lot of manufacturers use Adblue, apparently that cleans up the engine exhaust gases. How many company car owners fill up the washer bottle let alone an Adblue bottle for cleaner emissions?

The car industry has put a lot of emphasis on diesel engines with lower consumption for company car owners as well as better residuals and lower maintenance costs, so they'll have to come up with a cleaner system that will 'scrub' particulates and not get clogged like DPF's do on short journeys.

 

[conaero]

Ok, so it looks like the clean diesel will rescue the day.

Martin, my Audi has adblu and it gives you 500 miles warning to fill it, if you get down to zero, the car wont start (so I am led to believe) but I have not seen this first hand.

On another not, there is the train of thought that ad blue is processed cattle urine so p!ssing in your tank may well become a reality soon

I put in 10L from UCP for about £15 a pop and it lasts 6 months/5k miles. Most Petrol Stations now have it stacked up outside too where it was impossible to find 2 years ago when I first had it.

 

[StuartW]

Yes, the adblu is common site now and the Levante uses it too. I wonder if when the 3 years comes along, topped up adblu will be the difference between an MOT pass or fail? And will people bother with it as cars get older as it is another associated running cost which might be skimped on.

 

[bigbob]

I doubt Maserati will worry much about it. The diesel is bought in from another part of FCA I believe so as long as they can gain access to enough of the petrol motors from Ferrari then they would be fine with any market shift. With the Levante now being sold in the UK with either fuel then it's for customers to decide.

I've always been surprised with the Ghibli at how much more they charge even for the basic petrol engine so that might need addressing but larger volumes should help with input prices.

 

[safrane]

I would be more interested in what Government will do on diesel tax to push owners to vehicles with less or no N.O. emissions.
The vast majority of DERVs are sold on a believe they save you money, if that saving vanished then Petrol and Hybrids etc will become more popular.

The scrappage schem for older DERV will be the first in a raft of eco moves in the UK the next will be a multipler on the fuel to pay for each EVO version they pay to scrap.

There will be some swan songs for this fuel, but the big hitter will be China and their pollution levels make our city's seem like country air.

When they start to crack down all motor Co will need to wake up.

 

[keith]

It's important to draw the distinction between Euro 6 and older diesel engines.
The current engines introduced in 2015 are about as clean in terms of NOX as petrol engines, and are cleaner in terms of CO2 emissions.
The government made clear recently that these newer engines contribute to helping the environment and will not attract additional road charges. As a result you will see an increased public awareness of Euro 6 engines, and more importantly the media will get bored of the 'negative diesel' story.
Maserati like all manufacturers will continue to offer both diesel petrol and in the future hybrid solutions for their cars I have no doubt.

 

[conaero]

Thanks Keith for clearing that up.

 

[Almichie]

Yes, the adblu is common site now and the Levante uses it too. I wonder if when the 3 years comes along, topped up adblu will be the difference between an MOT pass or fail? And will people bother with it as cars get older as it is another associated running cost which might be skimped on.

Our fleet of technicians have vivaros's, they all use Adblu now and if they run out the engine wont restart, the van won't let you carry on without it, just like running out of fuel.

 

[keith]

Thanks Keith for clearing that up.

Please don't mention it, my pleasure, always happy to be of assistance!
Seriously though all diesels seem to be getting lumped together with no mention of how much cleaner the new ones actually are. For example the sharks at City of Westminster council are putting an additional levy at roadside parking spaces in central London, on ALL diesels irrespective of age. Clearly just an excuse to rake in the money.

 

[StuartW]

Our fleet of technicians have vivaros's, they all use Adblu now and if they run out the engine wont restart, the van won't let you carry on without it, just like running out of fuel.

That's good to hear

 

[P R]

Euro 6 = no issue

Of course that's not really a good story so the mainstream media and even the car mags aren't interested in telling us that
It's also been said that the diesel in the masers is a vm motori unit.. modified for Maserati, not built from scratch.

Word in the trade is that mild hybridization will be the next big thing with a 48v system assisting the engine. This will be cheap to fit and achieve excellent fuel efficiency gains. It can be used on petrol and diesel engines

 

[bigbob]

It's important to draw the distinction between Euro 6 and older diesel engines.
The current engines introduced in 2015 are about as clean in terms of NOX as petrol engines, and are cleaner in terms of CO2 emissions.
The government made clear recently that these newer engines contribute to helping the environment and will not attract additional road charges. As a result you will see an increased public awareness of Euro 6 engines, and more importantly the media will get bored of the 'negative diesel' story.
Maserati like all manufacturers will continue to offer both diesel petrol and in the future hybrid solutions for their cars I have no doubt.

Thats the theory but the reality is not so rosy. Whilst EU6 diesels are much cleaner than what has gone before they still put out materially more than they claim to. I agree that higher charges across the board for all diesels is inappropriate, however, the truth is still unencouraging and all manufacturers need to improve.

As has been mentioned mild petrol hybrids will help meet what are over ambitious CO2 targets but the whole system needs an overhaul which will allow faith to be restored. I've never understood why people buy expensive cars and them skimp by buying noisy, smelly rattly Diesel engines but if there is a choice then fine.

 

[P R]

Except small patrols appear to be worst offenders...
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-...t-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

 

[bigbob]

This is all driven by emissions legislation which exceeds what engineers can deliver, hence the corruption and lies. There is no fuel winner from this process only a move away from fossil fuel use by the vehicle itself and a likely reduction in car ownership full stop as people make more use of (driverless) pooled electric cars and mass transit systems supplemented by further urbanisation of the population. Personally I would not own auto shares.

 

[CatmanV2]

This is all driven by emissions legislation which exceeds what engineers can deliver,

.....with the money they are allowed to spend, I suspect

C