I don't understand this whole electric car/ clean thing...

[Grant V]

I think we're being duped.

Years ago we were being told that petrol cars were Satan itself and that diesels were 'clean' and environmentally friendly. I used to look at the black diesel smoke belching out of the exhausts on a 240D Benz as a kid and some how years later when the 'clean diesel' thing came about, I just couldn't tie the ends of this argument together. But the world did and governments were encouraging everyone to change to diesel through tax breaks for a clean, environmentally friendly motoring solution.
Now I understand that diesel is the new sin resulting in untold deaths and respiratory problems and that they now need to be banned.

Now....electric cars - I can't tie up this argument either. To generate electricity, the world needs gas, coal or nuclear power stations and neither of those are environmentally friendly. And the batteries are made from lithium which is being mined on a grand scale down in South America effing up their environment. For most European greens South America is sufficiently far enough away not to have to look this one in the eye. Electric cars are 'clean' and the future, all the greens (and Leonardo Dicaprio) say.

And all the governments, particularly the French, are having a go at cars, but carefully avoiding the massive emissions from airplanes, ships and railways. Huh?? Can people not think for themselves?

I think I will put my QP in sport mode on the way home tonight and rev it to the limit to re-boot my system.

 

[P R]

They have shifted from CO2 to NOx as the big no no.
The extra death figures are a complete joke. They take people who have died with any respiratory illness and assumed its diesel car emissions.
They are indeed building extra runways (Heathrows third airport will have extra planes, which do by the way produce plenty of NOx's at low altitudes over London)

To top it all off the Euro VI diesel and petrol NOx limits aren't that different anyway (0.08 and 0.06g/km respectively), especially compared to earlier Euro regs.

 

[allandwf]

Propaganda, and a nice little earner for friends and relations on committees!

 

[MrMickS]

Its what happens when you set narrow targets with standardised, unrealistic, tests. The process gets gamed. So you have things like the VW "cheat device". Maserati and Alfa fitting stop/start to some models and not to others, entirely due to the difference it would make in the tests rather than the real world benefit.

Now the vehicle to beat is the diesel because it happens to be at the top of a list. Facts don't matter, we need to do something short term to show that we are doing something and look good. What is needed is a strategic review of transport in general. Look at how it is used, what people need, and then push resources that way. I still have to drive into an office most days. Not because I need to be in the office, I can work perfectly well at home and am more productive, but because that's the prevalent business model. How many other office based workers could say the same?

Its even worse here because a large portion of the work involves co-ordinating with people around the world. Its perfectly fine to have online meetings with them yet we have to go to the office. Surely it should be about the work done not presence at a desk?

 

[safrane]

New tax routes as cars become more efficient
Forces people to buy more and generate more tax
Helps to line the pockets of industry
attract votes from the part of society who hate to see people with a nice powerful car.

Its all a con as we are doomed to extinction anyway.

 

[keith]

I am waiting for the media driven back lash against electric cars:-
Disposal of exhausted batteries.
As already mentioned, supply and generation problems for the electricity to charge the cars.
No general election news, or major Brexit stories, so lets bring up something old - exhaust pollution!
We are all driven by whatever the latest news the media want us to focus on, and how they want to spin it.

 

[GeoffCapes]

The statistic which I like best on the whole car pollution thing is that the 16 largest ships in the world are the cause of more pollution than the whole of the planets cars.

Surely they should start with ships before cars?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html

 

[rockits]

I read a report years ago that said shipping contributed to 40% global CO2 emissions with aviation 17% and the mighty motor vehicle responsible for......wait for it....1%.

So if we wipe all the motor vehicles off the planet we reduce global CO2 emissions by 1%. Good job!

Maybe as Mark says start with shipping then aviation first.

 

[Swedish Paul]

As the demand ramps up, then even more research. Some genius will pop up and invent something's by that will replace today's batteries, be sustainable and so on. Where there's a will, there's a way. Wish I was clever enough to be that genius...

 

[Corranga]

Pretty sure the cleanest thing to do would be to stop making any new cars for a few years, or to restrict it so you can only buy a new car every 3 years or something.

The cleanest car will always be one that's already been made, regardless as to whether it's a Nissan Leaf of a Maserati Coupe GT.

Don't see it going that way though!

I can guarantee that the 900 miles my 4.2 v8 did last year was cleaner than the 10k my 1.4 did, but of course that's also ignored.

 

[Ebenezer]

Hydrogen fuel cells? What ever happened to them?
Eb

 

[2b1ask1]

Hydrogen fuel cells? What ever happened to them?
Eb

Cost and lifespan of stored material not good enough apparently. We had a Hydrogen refuelling rig at the BP on the A127 at Upminster which they used for the experimental Hydrogen busses a few years ago. The problem was it is volatile to store, the busses HAD to make a journey out from London every three days to refuel or they ended up being towed out to the station!

 

[safrane]

TFL now operate a fleet of Hydrogen cars as do a taxi firm. Fuel is now available in central London.

 

[Scaf]

I read a report years ago that said shipping contributed to 40% global CO2 emissions with aviation 17% and the mighty motor vehicle responsible for......wait for it....1%.

So if we wipe all the motor vehicles off the planet we reduce global CO2 emissions by 1%. Good job!

Maybe as Mark says start with shipping then aviation first.

To be fair, and I speak as someone who was seduced by the diesel argument, but also run two petrol V8's the drive for electric seems to be much more around innercity pollution that global CO2. but like most people, I don't get electric argument and see all sorts of issues on around lithium mining and battery disposal.

The inner city problem can surly be improved with even better filter systems or something.

In the meantime I'll stick with what I've got

 

[Paul - H]

Revenue propaganda, we will end up driving electric cars for a while, until they think of a new scam for Joe Public to pay. Cheap Chinese power will create more emmisons but not in our back yard. Is that not why the Chinese want to pay for our nuclear power stations?

 

[bigbob]

In the main the principle C02 polluters are away from population centres or even land masses (boats n planes) but in towns we can achieve aims by making all cars hybrid and obliging them to only run on electric power in the conurbation.

 

[Jono]

The Royal Mail refuses to transport lithium batteries,used frequently for golf buggies,due the likelihood of their combusting.Point also well made earlier by Scaf about disposal of these batteries.


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[conaero]

Am I not of the understanding that the the internal combustion engine can be converted to run HFC as its a combustible fuel?

If this is indeed correct then surely its a win win all round?

 

[FIFTY]

They have figured out the short term disposal of the batteries, once they dip below 75% of their lifespan they are no good for cars any more so they will be sold as residential battery cells which will draw power from the grid during off-peak hours and serve your power usage during the day until depleted and charged, this will flatten out the strain on the national grid.

Tesla are already selling such a product, it is quite expensive but once more electric cars are on the road and use up their batteries they will be giving them away. https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall

Mining lithium is a good point though, similar to the "clean nuclear energy" argument they still have to mine the raw uranium with diesel powered mining equipment destroying the landscape etc.

 

[Steve GS]

Let's face it there is no clean energy even if we went back to horse and cart, can you imagine 30,000,000 of them on the roads the farting and ******** everywhere