Granturismo 2013 onwards Auto (ZF) VERSUS 2007 to 2012 MC Shift (F1)

Shuey

Shuey

New Member
Messages
2
strictly said:
Hi all,

My first post. I have been reading the forum for some time. I am in the market for a GTS (light paint, red interior). I have settled on the idea of a MC Shift, on the basis it would be generally be a weekend car for use on open A and B roads. Occasional rush hour traffic. No slopes to park near me. I have so far been recommended the MC shift as being the "more rewarding drive"

While I have been looking at GT's from 2007 to 2015 with a 2010 onwards preferred, I have noticed that after 2013 the MC shift becomes alot harder to find, with most being Auto models (or Auto MC)

Should I therefore (which?)
  • A. Focus on a 2007 to 2012 MC shift
  • B. Don't worry about it, a 2013 onwards auto (ZF) is sooooooo good the MC shift largely became redundant
  • C. Accept that a 2013 onwards MC shift is just became rarer and I should still seek one out.
I have read all about variators, front subframes etc, and that the 2013 onwards models, received an upgraded software auto box. Also that 2013 represented a bit more than just a facelifted GT, but also with plenty of updates in general from a 2012.

Luke

P.S if you really feel I should chase D which would be a 2007 to 2012 Auto by all means say it. I have mostly settled on an MC, but I am planning on delaying a purchase till winter, so I still have plenty of time to work through things.
Click to expand...
strictly said:
Hi all,

My first post. I have been reading the forum for some time. I am in the market for a GTS (light paint, red interior). I have settled on the idea of a MC Shift, on the basis it would be generally be a weekend car for use on open A and B roads. Occasional rush hour traffic. No slopes to park near me. I have so far been recommended the MC shift as being the "more rewarding drive"

While I have been looking at GT's from 2007 to 2015 with a 2010 onwards preferred, I have noticed that after 2013 the MC shift becomes alot harder to find, with most being Auto models (or Auto MC)

Should I therefore (which?)
  • A. Focus on a 2007 to 2012 MC shift
  • B. Don't worry about it, a 2013 onwards auto (ZF) is sooooooo good the MC shift largely became redundant
  • C. Accept that a 2013 onwards MC shift is just became rarer and I should still seek one out.
I have read all about variators, front subframes etc, and that the 2013 onwards models, received an upgraded software auto box. Also that 2013 represented a bit more than just a facelifted GT, but also with plenty of updates in general from a 2012.

Luke

P.S if you really feel I should chase D which would be a 2007 to 2012 Auto by all means say it. I have mostly settled on an MC, but I am planning on delaying a purchase till winter, so I still have plenty of time to work through things.
Click to expand...
Luke, I am going to be selling my MC Stradale soon!! Have you considered one as an option? Like an MC Shift but everything is just better

Shuey
 
hashluck

hashluck

Member
Messages
1,523
I would be an option C.

Facelift car much better in my opinion and I have direct experience test driving both MC Auto and MC-Shift new back in 2014 and it was chalk and cheese to me and in favour of MC-Shift. I was told at the time the weight distribution of the two cars was also different helping the driving experience of the MC-Shift. It was a close decision but I ended up buying an Aston Martin Vantage (Sportshift, their version of MC-Shift) at the time, a car much missed but I also now have a Gransport MC-V (fastest shift version of CambioCorsa) and Stradale (GT MC-Shift with bells on). I purchased both of these as the ZF Auto in the car I replaced the Vantage with is excellent but did not give me the same experience so it was an excuse to get a Maserati after all.

As above your experience and preferences may differ. For MC-Shift your head needs to be wanting a manual gearbox (which is basically what it is) and drive it as such and all will be well. The later MC Auto is a very fine thing if using the car every day.

Horses for courses.
 
strictly

strictly

Junior Member
Messages
55
Well, what can I say. Thanks for the replies - while I was leaning towards a MC shift.....I absolutely want one now!

Thanks for the offers of drives really cool, and super appreciated. Im a long way from anywhere, in fact there are probably more Maseratis GT's in Timbuktu than there are within 80 miles of where I live (near Newquay, Cornwall). I have have heard some great things about Richard Grace. Rich, I am keeping an eye on what you have. I'm still a few months away, maybe even 6 months from having enough pennies saved, but you are certainly on my radar.

Well then, its decided gotta be the MC!! If after 2013 they become quite rare, then realistically I will probally just end up buying a 4.7 GTS 2010 to 2012 model. Obviously i'm going to keep an eye out for a 2013 on, but by the sound of it, particularly when you understand my current budget + general family finances, if the MC is so rare, then also likely to be out of reach. At least right now.

Appreciate the replies, and the offers. I'll keep asking questions until I find "the one" and ready to pull the trigger. Hopefully Maserati, will have wheel bearings in stock by then - LOL
 
C

Cdn17Sport6MT

Junior Member
Messages
72
If it were me, and if it were a 3rd car, it'd without a doubt be an MC Shift. But I also am realistic (I believe) in my expectations re reliability. So I offer the following two screenshots that, I believe, says it well...

Lest the "order" become scrambled in the "send", the more word-intense shot comes first...

Caveats:

i) written from a North American perspective, wherein the Granturismo "F1" transaxle ONLY was available on '09 Granturismo's; and

ii) written with some reference to Grandsports, which didn't even have SOFAST3 firmware.
 

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Zep

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,283
Cdn17Sport6MT said:
If it were me, and if it were a 3rd car, it'd without a doubt be an MC Shift. But I also am realistic (I believe) in my expectations re reliability. So I offer the following two screenshots that, I believe, says it well...

Lest the "order" become scrambled in the "send", the more word-intense shot comes first...

Caveats:

i) written from a North American perspective, wherein the Granturismo "F1" transaxle ONLY was available on '09 Granturismo's; and

ii) written with some reference to Grandsports, which didn't even have SOFAST3 firmware.
Click to expand...

I suppose the moral here is don’t buy a Granturismo MC Shift with a Gransport gearbox. Which is lucky.
 
conaero

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,631
You also have to note the £4k clutch change on the MCS every 40k miles vs the Autoshift which only requires a trans service every 70k miles at about £500. They says it’s sealed for life which is total ****
 
C

Cdn17Sport6MT

Junior Member
Messages
72
Zep said:
The vast majority of MC Shift owners have no issues. So a person needs to know that previous models perceived issues are best kept in the realm of that model.
Click to expand...
I can't argue with empirical results... but as I understand it the actuators themselves, the 2 hall-effect actuator position transmitters, the F1 pump and motor, the accumulator, the clutch position transmitter, the high pressure- and low pressure hydraulic hoses are all the same, back from the first 4200 coupé's/ Spyders... all the way to the "cooking variety" MCShift Granturismo's (but NOT the Stradale's). And so the reliability concerns expressed by who-ever made that statement about the peripherals being (hard-to-access) small-cost items... yet impairing the "confidence" he/she felt driving their GranSport or their Ferrari SHOULD BE the same as that experienced by the latest MCS car owners... It is the peripherals that give that individual pause... not the main cpts like clutch or actuator.
 
dickygrace

dickygrace

www.richardgracecars.co.uk
Messages
7,339
strictly said:
Hi all,

My first post. I have been reading the forum for some time. I am in the market for a GTS (light paint, red interior). I have settled on the idea of a MC Shift, on the basis it would be generally be a weekend car for use on open A and B roads. Occasional rush hour traffic. No slopes to park near me. I have so far been recommended the MC shift as being the "more rewarding drive"

While I have been looking at GT's from 2007 to 2015 with a 2010 onwards preferred, I have noticed that after 2013 the MC shift becomes alot harder to find, with most being Auto models (or Auto MC)

Should I therefore (which?)
  • A. Focus on a 2007 to 2012 MC shift
  • B. Don't worry about it, a 2013 onwards auto (ZF) is sooooooo good the MC shift largely became redundant
  • C. Accept that a 2013 onwards MC shift is just became rarer and I should still seek one out.
I have read all about variators, front subframes etc, and that the 2013 onwards models, received an upgraded software auto box. Also that 2013 represented a bit more than just a facelifted GT, but also with plenty of updates in general from a 2012.

Luke

P.S if you really feel I should chase D which would be a 2007 to 2012 Auto by all means say it. I have mostly settled on an MC, but I am planning on delaying a purchase till winter, so I still have plenty of time to work through things.
Click to expand...
Option B. Cornwall’s roads and distance from a specialist being factors in the decision. I visit Cornwall every summer and reckon a facelift auto best for your roads.
 
hashluck

hashluck

Member
Messages
1,523
dickygrace said:
Option B. Cornwall’s roads and distance from a specialist being factors in the decision. I visit Cornwall every summer and reckon a facelift auto best for your roads.
Click to expand...
I didn't factor or appreciate the Cornwall bit in my reasoning, I was just speaking form personal experience. You could well be right Dicky and I also didn't factor budget and would put a facelift Auto over a pre-facelift MC in this case.
 
E

Ebenezer

Member
Messages
4,501
Cdn17Sport6MT said:
but as I understand it the actuators themselves, the 2 hall-effect actuator position transmitters, the F1 pump and motor, the accumulator, the clutch position transmitter, the high pressure- and low pressure hydraulic hoses are all the same, back from the first 4200 coupé's/ Spyders... all the way to the "cooking variety" MCShift Granturismo's (but NOT the Stradale's).
Click to expand...
What's different about the Stradale?
Eb
 
C

Cdn17Sport6MT

Junior Member
Messages
72
Ebenezer said:
What's different about the Stradale?
Eb
Click to expand...
I am by no means really savvy about the differences, and in the fringes of memory I think someone said that the Stradale F1 pump is the same as the predecessor MCShift cars (though it may operate at a higher pressure)...

Viewing this: https://www.sequparts.com/product-category/maserati/
it is instructive to compare parts between car lines /models...

I see that I was in error re some of what I said above: it appears that cooking version MCShift cars ALSO have that upgraded F1 pump that Stradale cars do.

When Maserati transitioned from SOFAST3+ Quattroporte's (and the Alfa 8C) - they revised several things including:

- bell housing (upgrades to a two support bearing design);

- the actuator was revised;

- it appears the F1 pump was made more durable;

- the servo-oil operating pressure was raised;

- I think (though I'm not sure) the clutch position transmitter was made more temperature-resistant, more durable.

It's not clear to me that any other cpts were revised, like the Hall effect actuator position transmitters or the hydraulic hoses, or the throw-out bearing.

I don't know the minutiae that differentiates the "Cooking" MCS from the Stradale... but likely @cheburator does.

In summary, it DOES appear that MCS Granturismo has at least some upgraded cpts versus earlier cars... but not all (potentially failure-prone) cpts are different.

I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Guy

Guy

Member
Messages
2,135
They are all great cars and, whilst I agree that the auto may be the best every day drive, if you want something that's fun and is going to be used more as a toy I would definitely go MC Shift for the engagement, noise and shorter gearing, which makes them feel punchier. The Strad is a nice step up and more than the sum of its parts but does mean a very different price bracket. I have enjoyed all three drivetrains and I am sure you won't be disappointed with any. Best sports car of all based on my experience is the GranSport. Similar power to weight in a more compact chassis (I guess that could make a difference out west where the roads are narrow). I used to own air cooled 911s and 928s around the turn of the century and would liken the GS to a 911 and the GranTurismos to 928s in terms of footprint and steering. The GS is much less capable as a tourer (noisier, harder riding - in Sport, which is essential for the gear changes) but that's what makes it a superior sports car.
 
hashluck

hashluck

Member
Messages
1,523
Guy said:
They are all great cars and, whilst I agree that the auto may be the best every day drive, if you want something that's fun and is going to be used more as a toy I would definitely go MC Shift for the engagement, noise and shorter gearing, which makes them feel punchier. The Strad is a nice step up and more than the sum of its parts but does mean a very different price bracket. I have enjoyed all three drivetrains and I am sure you won't be disappointed with any. Best sports car of all based on my experience is the GranSport. Similar power to weight in a more compact chassis (I guess that could make a difference out west where the roads are narrow). I used to own air cooled 911s and 928s around the turn of the century and would liken the GS to a 911 and the GranTurismos to 928s in terms of footprint and steering. The GS is much less capable as a tourer (noisier, harder riding - in Sport, which is essential for the gear changes) but that's what makes it a superior sports car.
Click to expand...
Owning both a Strad and and GS I agree with this 100% - been using the GS regularly this past few weeks and it is simply superb. I knew that going in but it really hammered it home to me with regular use and compared to all other cars I own, this is the best sports car.
 
C

cheburator

Member
Messages
143
Guy said:
They are all great cars and, whilst I agree that the auto may be the best every day drive, if you want something that's fun and is going to be used more as a toy I would definitely go MC Shift for the engagement, noise and shorter gearing, which makes them feel punchier. The Strad is a nice step up and more than the sum of its parts but does mean a very different price bracket. I have enjoyed all three drivetrains and I am sure you won't be disappointed with any. Best sports car of all based on my experience is the GranSport. Similar power to weight in a more compact chassis (I guess that could make a difference out west where the roads are narrow). I used to own air cooled 911s and 928s around the turn of the century and would liken the GS to a 911 and the GranTurismos to 928s in terms of footprint and steering. The GS is much less capable as a tourer (noisier, harder riding - in Sport, which is essential for the gear changes) but that's what makes it a superior sports car.
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that - I still own a factory restored 928 GTS Manual which I have had for a very long time... My new to me Sport F1 feels like what the 928 would have evolved into, had Porsche continued with the model line... Have to say, the German GTS performance wise is on par with the Italian GTS - mine has cams and has been tuned to 400bhp - and it's lugging 450kg less with the same toque. Where the Maserati wins hands down is the quality of the materials and overall comfort. oh, and price - a 928GTS 5-spd is more than a good 2-seat and caged Stradale these days...
 
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Guy

Guy

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cheburator said:
Funny you should say that - I still own a factory restored 928 GTS Manual which I have had for a very long time... My new to me Sport F1 feels like what the 928 would have evolved into, had Porsche continued with the model line... Have to say, the German GTS performance wise is on par with the Italian GTS - mine has cams and has been tuned to 400bhp - and it's lugging 450kg less with the same toque. Where the Maserati wins hands down is the quality of the materials and overall comfort. oh, and price - a 928GTS 5-spd is more than a good 2-seat and caged Stradale these days...
Click to expand...
My last 928 was a GTS (auto). I loved the evolution of the looks with the wider arches but the one I should have bought was the S4 SE manual, which was more hardcore - my 5.4 GTS felt more Merc V8 than Porsche V8. I did have a manual S4 in white, the back end of it tuning caramel between washes due to the exhaust. They seemed vast back in the day but now look quite diminutive!
 
C

cheburator

Member
Messages
143
Guy said:
My last 928 was a GTS (auto). I loved the evolution of the looks with the wider arches but the one I should have bought was the S4 SE manual, which was more hardcore - my 5.4 GTS felt more Merc V8 than Porsche V8. I did have a manual S4 in white, the back end of it tuning caramel between washes due to the exhaust. They seemed vast back in the day but now look quite diminutive!
Click to expand...
I used to drive an SE regularly - my best man had one in black, and I also used to daily a German LHD GT at the same time, which is effectively an SE, so yes, the SE/GT/CS were really special... Mind you, any good 928, especially manuals are special... They don't make them like they used to...
 
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