Gransport Potential Issues and Fixes List

[EnzoMC]

I'm only getting a rattle on cold starts... when starting warm it shows no issues. The engine block seems dry so no seepage there so I'm guessing its the one way valve? Could it be anything else?

check the connector from the variators, its under the block cover on the cam cover. if the connections are coating in oil then its variators, I'm told the oil is being forced from the failed variator. i found this issue, replaced them both and resolved the issue.

 

[hashluck]

#180267
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and the thread they talk about it https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/top-end-rattle-at-start-up.22107/

Interestingly the same part number is 10 pounds cheaper on ES in the Ferraris than the Maseratis.

Thank you!

 

[Evo Cymru]

Regarding the variators, I found this useful post on ML about the dry sump engine system:

https://www.maseratilife.com/thread...-to-know-about-the-dry-sump-variators.122507/

This details the system quite well but also points to the accumulator as being a possible cause (or at least initial cause) of variator failure. Thoughts?

 

[boomerang]

The accumulator should be there only to equalize pressure peaks I am told by a Maserati specialist.
However, is someone here able to tell what the symptoms are from a bad actuator?
Is there a way to check it, measuring pressures at different rpms for example, or maybe measuring time and pressure fall after engine stop?
In the manual I can not find any info about this.

In quite an old topic I explained my pre lube system, mounted to be able to start the engine AFTER oil pressure is obtained, preventing the cold start rattle.
But after some research, I found that the tiny check valve at the LH cilinder head, is quite important for this “rattle issue”.
It prevents the variator oil circuit to empty itself.
Mine was leaky.
Something to take in mind if there are variator problems.
Still, my 500SL needed quite some new accumulators in its hydraulic active body control system.
So they do fail...

 

[TimR]

check the connector from the variators, its under the block cover on the cam cover. if the connections are coating in oil then its variators, I'm told the oil is being forced from the failed variator. i found this issue, replaced them both and resolved the issue.

You're confusing me here a bit...!
You said you had this issue, changed the oil bag ( accumulator) and it was solved. You added that the solenoids were changed at the same time...but insisted the accumulator was the culprit...Or was that a different car..? ( post 61 https://www.sportsmaserati.co.uk/index.php?threads/variators.17556/page-4 )
So- when you say "variator" above in this thread ( quoted) do you mean solenoids..? I ask because, it is also widely postulated it seems, that the solenoids are often the issue....?
How did you establish that the oil bag was the culprit ? How did you separate the solenoids out from the equation when you changed both solenoids and oil bag at the same time ( so no contro/null hypothesis possible)
Sorry...I am not stalking you EnzoMC, but Im struggling to understand how my 4200 makes so much noise on cold starts, but the specialists say its within normal limits....!!/

 

[EnzoMC]

Good point and it was some time ago. i had the rattle, suggestion was to check variator cable connector for oil. if you have this then variators have failed - its a quick check.

my connectors were coated in oil and replacing the variators fixed it. As I understand the accumulator is also apart of this system and was only about £100 for the part, so whilst I had the top part of the engine off I also replaced this.

when I said solenoids I meant variators

not sure the rattle is normal. the rattle only happens on mine if left standing for some time but only lasts a second or two, before it was much longer and would still happen if I started the following day - not any more.

it's an easy job to do if you are ok with working on cars

 

[TimR]

Unfortunately, the accumulators are nearer £500 these days...as are the variators. Last time I looked, it was nearly £2K to replace the VVT compnents ( 2 x variators. 1 x oil bag)

Would I be right to assume there is no need to re-establish cam timing with dial indicators etc..? And there is no need for a cam locking tool to remove the variator either...?
I think I should roll up my sleeves and have a go at this. Its embarrassing every time I turn the key !
TIA

 

[philw696]

Unfortunately, the accumulators are nearer £500 these days...as are the variators. Last time I looked, it was nearly £2K to replace the VVT compnents ( 2 x variators. 1 x oil bag)

Would I be right to assume there is no need to re-establish cam timing with dial indicators etc..? And there is no need for a cam locking tool to remove the variator either...?
I think I should roll up my sleeves and have a go at this. Its embarrassing every time I turn the key !
TIA

The only correct and factory method is to use dial gauges as these are highly strung performance engines.
Dialing it in is what takes the time to get it spot on.

 

[EnzoMC]

Unfortunately, the accumulators are nearer £500 these days...as are the variators. Last time I looked, it was nearly £2K to replace the VVT compnents ( 2 x variators. 1 x oil bag)

Would I be right to assume there is no need to re-establish cam timing with dial indicators etc..? And there is no need for a cam locking tool to remove the variator either...?
I think I should roll up my sleeves and have a go at this. Its embarrassing every time I turn the key !
TIA

yep a lot of parts have increased, i just got quoted £400 for one seat motor, so i'm looking elsewhere.

no special tools needed, i used a standard halfords kit. just a few allen bolts to remove the variators.
i would suggest you also get cam gaskets (i made sure mine was an offical gasket), o ring, and various other gaskets for the air intake. i can look for the list I had if it would help.
just be very careful when removing the variators, on the chain side is a small block that could fall into the engine. i blocked the area with cloths and used various magnets just in case. credit to another member for this info.

 

[safrane]

think the 911/Boxster uses the same seat motors with just a different plug.

 

[TimR]

The only correct and factory method is to use dial gauges as these are highly strung performance engines.
Dialing it in is what takes the time to get it spot on.

I would have imagined this approach. but indulge me for a moment. The sprocket cog isnt a part of the variator, rather sitting behind it on the shaft towards the aft...? So if the variator is removed without disturbing the cam chain/sprocket orientation , there is further, no relative "error" created between the various moving parts from it's removal...? Unless the sprocket is slotted or something...but the implication is that the parts are locked to the shaft with a "woodruff`' style key of some kind...? Of course, Im rather going on the fiche diagrams to make this assumption, and in conjunction with Enzo's input.
The QP motors ( blue top/wet sump ?); seems these have flats machined into the camshafts for the purpose of holding them with an appropriate open ended spanner...I certainly would feel better about it if i could lock the shaft...!
( And no, mole grips wont do !!! )

 

[Oneball]

I would have imagined this approach. but indulge me for a moment. The sprocket cog isnt a part of the variator, rather sitting behind it on the shaft towards the aft...? So if the variator is removed without disturbing the cam chain/sprocket orientation , there is further, no relative "error" created between the various moving parts from it's removal...? Unless the sprocket is slotted or something...but the implication is that the parts are locked to the shaft with a "woodruff`' style key of some kind...? Of course, Im rather going on the fiche diagrams to make this assumption, and in conjunction with Enzo's input.
The QP motors ( blue top/wet sump ?); seems these have flats machined into the camshafts for the purpose of holding them with an appropriate open ended spanner...I certainly would feel better about it if i could lock the shaft...!
( And no, mole grips wont do !!! )

Never done it on a Maser but can’t be much different to other VVT. The cog isn’t fixed to the cam. It’s attached to the variator which then drives the cam. Thats what allows changes to the timing as the engine is running. Even if the cams are locked the crank isn’t. So you need to set the cam timing to each other and the crank hence two gauges.

 

[TimR]

Never done it on a Maser but can’t be much different to other VVT. The cog isn’t fixed to the cam. It’s attached to the variator which then drives the cam. Thats what allows changes to the timing as the engine is running. Even if the cams are locked the crank isn’t. So you need to set the cam timing to each other and the crank hence two gauges.

Of course - we're not trying to dial in the valve timing as much as ensure the built motor doesnt move at all and relative to the camshaft...
So locking the flywheel, and the camshaft, should be sufficient, given the variator is fixed furniture, dictated via the woodfruff key....

 

[Oneball]

Looking at this photo the bolt holes are slotted.

 

[TimR]

Looking at this photo the bolt holes are slotted. View attachment 84026

Boll0x- EnzoMC is a brave man....!

 

[EnzoMC]

maybe i'm missing something, i didn't need to change that part to fix the rattling
to change the variators; very high level, camcovers off, 2x allen bolts, slid out and replace with new one.
for accumulator; air in-take off, remove brackets and connectors and replace

have you checked if your variators connection are coated in oil, if not then the rattle is being caused by something else, maybe have a word with Matt or Voicey

 

[TimR]

maybe i'm missing something, i didn't need to change that part to fix the rattling
to change the variators; very high level, camcovers off, 2x allen bolts, slid out and replace with new one.
for accumulator; air in-take off, remove brackets and connectors and replace

have you checked if your variators connection are coated in oil, if not then the rattle is being caused by something else, maybe have a word with Matt or Voicey

I think you mean the solenoids Enzo....! Part number 22 It is your use of 'solenoid' and 'variator' that I was picking up upon...No worries..
My connector block is coated in oil on one side. If it can be fixed by part number 22 ( SOLENOID) then it is an easy job, indeed ! And to my mind, leaving a variator to rattle every time i turn the key, will lead to the need to replace that too in the future....So maybe it is worth the investment of some £300+ to replace the solenoid control valve....

 

[Oneball]

maybe i'm missing something, i didn't need to change that part to fix the rattling
to change the variators; very high level, camcovers off, 2x allen bolts, slid out and replace with new one.
for accumulator; air in-take off, remove brackets and connectors and replace

have you checked if your variators connection are coated in oil, if not then the rattle is being caused by something else, maybe have a word with Matt or Voicey

was it the solenoid you changed?

 

[conaero]

The only correct and factory method is to use dial gauges as these are highly strung performance engines.
Dialing it in is what takes the time to get it spot on.

Agreed, this is what we do. There is a multiple angle/rotation and check procedure which is different per engine type. Something I learnt is 4.7 F1 and Auto engines are timed on the chain completely differently.

 

[Evo Cymru]

If you are feeling brave just use some mole grips!

NB I would NOT recommend this!